"super sharp steering"
Discussion
I hear and see this a lot, an awful lot in fact, especially on TV and on the printed page of car magazines.
Don't know about you but my 2 pence is that its a FU****N ROAD CAR FOR CRYIN OUT LOUD ! It's not a forumla Renault, it is a car designed to excel on a mix of roads, driving conditions, driving tasks and over a varying set of moods, levels of tiredness and degrees of CBA-ness.
In fact, a smidgen of vagueness is actually favourable whether that be in the turn in, the suspension, the way the car rolls into a bend and rotates and settles on its suspension, or the whole subjective experience of the car's footprint. A few degrees of latitude, of marshmellowness, of forgiveness is exactly what you want in a road car. COMPLIANCE IS KING as is liquidity and flow, and you can't have either if you sharpen everything up like its some sort of goddam DTM car. Those few microns of slop are where all the fun lies. Lotus know this only too well and that's partly why they still make the best judged ride and handling on the planet and you only need one lap in a caterham on soft standard bilsteins to understand this too.
Like so many other traits, 'super sharp steering' has become a badge of honour, a must have checkbox, another piece of mandatory 'bling'. If you don't have it, then the car's not up there, not good enough, not a 5 star EVO car, not a Nissan GTR beater, not quick enough for a sub 7.30. The truth for me though is that 'super sharp steering' is for wallys, for folk who didn't grow up on 15" rims but rather Stuff magazine centrefolds, the TG lap board and Gran Tourisimo.
Don't know about you but my 2 pence is that its a FU****N ROAD CAR FOR CRYIN OUT LOUD ! It's not a forumla Renault, it is a car designed to excel on a mix of roads, driving conditions, driving tasks and over a varying set of moods, levels of tiredness and degrees of CBA-ness.
In fact, a smidgen of vagueness is actually favourable whether that be in the turn in, the suspension, the way the car rolls into a bend and rotates and settles on its suspension, or the whole subjective experience of the car's footprint. A few degrees of latitude, of marshmellowness, of forgiveness is exactly what you want in a road car. COMPLIANCE IS KING as is liquidity and flow, and you can't have either if you sharpen everything up like its some sort of goddam DTM car. Those few microns of slop are where all the fun lies. Lotus know this only too well and that's partly why they still make the best judged ride and handling on the planet and you only need one lap in a caterham on soft standard bilsteins to understand this too.
Like so many other traits, 'super sharp steering' has become a badge of honour, a must have checkbox, another piece of mandatory 'bling'. If you don't have it, then the car's not up there, not good enough, not a 5 star EVO car, not a Nissan GTR beater, not quick enough for a sub 7.30. The truth for me though is that 'super sharp steering' is for wallys, for folk who didn't grow up on 15" rims but rather Stuff magazine centrefolds, the TG lap board and Gran Tourisimo.
Actually, super sharp steering is a very good thing if I understand what they mean. When they say "sharp" they aren't meaning harsh, more that the undulations of the road and the working of the suspension and the tyres are presented to the driver through the steering, and that there isn't any vagueness or slop in the steering. Neither of those should make the car feel like you're driving a GT3 endurance racer to the shops.
For example, the Morris Minor steering rack was used in a lot of club race cars, and I think I read somewhere even in some early 60s F1 Coopers, because it provided a good level of feel and precision. The Morris Minor is not generally considered to be a car that was honed on the race track.
I like a nice plush barge as much as the next man, and my daily is a Rover 75 that I have upgraded to a real wood dashboard.
Even with the lolloping long travel suspension and relatively high profile tyres, it's an engaging car to drive in a spirited fashion because amongst other things the steering has good feel.
For example, the Morris Minor steering rack was used in a lot of club race cars, and I think I read somewhere even in some early 60s F1 Coopers, because it provided a good level of feel and precision. The Morris Minor is not generally considered to be a car that was honed on the race track.
I like a nice plush barge as much as the next man, and my daily is a Rover 75 that I have upgraded to a real wood dashboard.
Even with the lolloping long travel suspension and relatively high profile tyres, it's an engaging car to drive in a spirited fashion because amongst other things the steering has good feel. I think It's different things for different cars, for example, if a lotus elise had sloppy steering you would hate it, but if your merc diesel barge did, it would be annoying.
The 'real life' argument is a failure anyway, because who needs a luxury car or a sports car anyway? so you can't exactly complain that you can't use their features.
but the worst steering has to be the over assisted and either stupidly vague or too sharp steering. I think quite a few people say 'sharp' steering when they mean nicely wieghted.
The 'real life' argument is a failure anyway, because who needs a luxury car or a sports car anyway? so you can't exactly complain that you can't use their features.
but the worst steering has to be the over assisted and either stupidly vague or too sharp steering. I think quite a few people say 'sharp' steering when they mean nicely wieghted.
I like sharp steering and tight cars in general but I don't do many miles.
I did once (before SVA) put a hillclimber on the road and that had about 1/2 a turn, lock to lock and needed a lot of concentration as the slightest movement on the wheel meant you were on the other side of the road.
Combined with the stiff suspension, solid engine mounts and power, meant I was exhausted after 20 miles but feck me, it was a memorable 20 miles.
I did once (before SVA) put a hillclimber on the road and that had about 1/2 a turn, lock to lock and needed a lot of concentration as the slightest movement on the wheel meant you were on the other side of the road.
Combined with the stiff suspension, solid engine mounts and power, meant I was exhausted after 20 miles but feck me, it was a memorable 20 miles.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
What do you think the testers mean ? Yes its the rack speed but also the percieved crispness of turn in I imagine as well which is due to all sorts of other things I guess like the tie rods, the shoulders of the tyre, the steering weighting, front toe,, rear geometry as well etc..redgriff500 said:
I did once (before SVA) put a hillclimber on the road and that had about 1/2 a turn, lock to lock and needed a lot of concentration as the slightest movement on the wheel meant you were on the other side of the road.
I am not calling custard but would like to see it if you have a picture.Over on locost forums there has been discussions about road legal track cars and single seaters.
dtmpower said:
redgriff500 said:
I did once (before SVA) put a hillclimber on the road and that had about 1/2 a turn, lock to lock and needed a lot of concentration as the slightest movement on the wheel meant you were on the other side of the road.
I am not calling custard but would like to see it if you have a picture.Over on locost forums there has been discussions about road legal track cars and single seaters.
Ask your Dad all you had to do was get an MOT - I got a daylight regs one which meant that pretty much all I had to do was add a numberplate.
I did add indicators and brake lights but IIRC they had to be "permanently taped up" for the MOT.
The MOT man took the view if I was dum enough to drive it he was willing to pass it - then you filled in a form and waited a couple of weeks for the V5, that was it - the good old days.
Surely as others have said it depends entirely on the car and what its for?
A fast rack and communicative steering is perfect for a performance car and a massive plus when driving quickly or on track. Why would you want the steering to be vague?
I assume this is what they mean when they say 'super sharp steering' although again that also suggests it includes turn in and handling in general.
A fast rack and communicative steering is perfect for a performance car and a massive plus when driving quickly or on track. Why would you want the steering to be vague?
I assume this is what they mean when they say 'super sharp steering' although again that also suggests it includes turn in and handling in general.
leeson660 said:
Surely as others have said it depends entirely on the car and what its for?
+1ie: first generation Ford Focus - well weighted steering and nimble chassis made it an excellent police car. New Astra - vague steering coupled with a soft, wobbly chassis makes for something that isn't a great steer when pressing on, not ideal for a police car.
There is no need for pin sharp steering if you're just planning on bimbling along, but not everyone wants to bimble. In the case of the police car, sometimes it will be called upon for a turn of pace and being able to deliver that with confidence, safely, is a big help.
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