Mainstream vs Smallscale Manufacturers
Discussion
Since I've seen a couple of discussions about this - what are the main differences between the products of Giant/Cervelo/Cannondale etc and Ribble/Planet-X and Canyon?
My situation: I've been looking at getting a new carbon roadie, the main criteria being carbon and ultegra groupset (minimum). Now I could get something like a 2012 Canyon Ultimate CF 9.0 for £1,700, however, when I look around at mainstream manufacturers with the same spec, you can pick up a 2011 Giant TCR Advanced for a little over £2k (since 2013 range is coming out soon), however, what really shocks me, is that the 2011 bike retailed new in 2011 at £3,850.
Surely this can't just be marketing or technology in the space of a year? Will the Giant at that price be a better buy than the similarly priced Canyon despite being a year older?
My situation: I've been looking at getting a new carbon roadie, the main criteria being carbon and ultegra groupset (minimum). Now I could get something like a 2012 Canyon Ultimate CF 9.0 for £1,700, however, when I look around at mainstream manufacturers with the same spec, you can pick up a 2011 Giant TCR Advanced for a little over £2k (since 2013 range is coming out soon), however, what really shocks me, is that the 2011 bike retailed new in 2011 at £3,850.
Surely this can't just be marketing or technology in the space of a year? Will the Giant at that price be a better buy than the similarly priced Canyon despite being a year older?
It's the usual situation: sponsorship costs are higher for the big boys, but they benefit from better economies of scale and design expertise. Someone will pipe up in a bit and say they all come from the same factories, but that's not all to say they're all made to the same standard or specifications. Not all carbon fibre, aluminium or steel is made equal.
Personally I think some of the Italian brands (Bianchi, Pinnarello etc) take the piss with their low to mid range stuff as they're trading off their name and they're (admittedly excellent) very high end stuff. Likewise the Planet X/On One/Canyon gear isn't great, but you get what you pay for and people are happy as long as their frame is mostly carbon fibre.
Personally I think the sweet spot at the low to mid range (say up to £3000) is the Cannondales, Specialized, Trek, Scott stuff; not a good enough name to trade off the reputation but the capital to make it work. High end go boutique by all means, and if you're a racer who really knows your onions some of the Planet X stuff is good value.
EDIT: and to answer your question, get the Giant.
Personally I think some of the Italian brands (Bianchi, Pinnarello etc) take the piss with their low to mid range stuff as they're trading off their name and they're (admittedly excellent) very high end stuff. Likewise the Planet X/On One/Canyon gear isn't great, but you get what you pay for and people are happy as long as their frame is mostly carbon fibre.
Personally I think the sweet spot at the low to mid range (say up to £3000) is the Cannondales, Specialized, Trek, Scott stuff; not a good enough name to trade off the reputation but the capital to make it work. High end go boutique by all means, and if you're a racer who really knows your onions some of the Planet X stuff is good value.
EDIT: and to answer your question, get the Giant.
okgo said:
Specialized not a big enough name? Lol sorry, voids the rest of your post. Oh, and the bit bout canyons not being that great...they're tour level bikes ffs!
I think he meant not glamorous enough, ie. not in the same league as Cervelo, Colnago, Pina etc. It's like comparing BMW or Honda with Ferrari and Porsche.AyBee said:
I'm aware of that (and the downfalls, although I hear their returns policy is very good), but surely circa £2k of a bikes price isn't taken by the retailers?
When I ordered my Orange 5 I negotiated £600 off, due to a cock up with ordering it I ended up getting another £400 off, and I'm sure the shop was still going to make a profit. The bike should have been about £4k but I paid £3K, I doubt there was £2000 profit but I'm sure the shop must have made something on it. Obviously the 5 is an MTB but I suspect type of bike isn't relevent.Sorry to jump in here, this is one of the first times I have heard them mentioned on here, but what are the thoughts on Cervelo frames, in particular the S2? I have a test ride on Saturday at the Tri Store in Eastbourne and even though I really like the bike and reviews I have read are pretty good it never hurts to have some more info...
BPC7 said:
Sorry to jump in here, this is one of the first times I have heard them mentioned on here, but what are the thoughts on Cervelo frames, in particular the S2? I have a test ride on Saturday at the Tri Store in Eastbourne and even though I really like the bike and reviews I have read are pretty good it never hurts to have some more info...
Speak to okgo, pretty sure he rides one!AyBee said:
Speak to okgo, pretty sure he rides one!
I do indeed.Feels like a decent steed to me, tests show they're very aero, so that's good. In terms of how they feel to ride - they're stiff, they are a race bike I guess, but I've done 100 mile rides on it and I've found it fine comfort wise. It feels sure footed downhill, despite its aero build it doesn't flex at all when going for it out of the saddle, I've put 1500 watts through it and the only flex I've felt can be felt in the wheels/bar/stem, the bottom bracket area is solid.
Not much more to say I guess? I've not ridden that many other bikes of the same level, but I'd recommend one. I like it so much I'm on the hunt for an s1 for training/winter riding etc.
From an MTB perspective. I have ridden and own many On One frames and for the money, you cant go wrong. I hammer the bikes and 'if' ( although not yet) I break one, i will buy another. Why? Well I am happy to have to replace a carbon hardtail for £300 notes every 4 or 5 years , than break a £1000 frame from another manufacturer. They are EN tested for strength and for the money it is great value. Within The Planet X and On One buisness, you basically are paying just the people who design and the people who build it, not the rest of the distribution buisness that normal bikes go through. Bikes and warranties are usually no existant, so that is something I also considered. I have had Carbon/ Ti Colnagos and Yeti bikes etc and unless you are at the utter pinnicle of performance, 99% of the bike is in price tags of reality. Yes, the finish isnt as perfect as my Colnago, but that is 6 times to price. No, I dont work for them, just a happy trail rider. I do feel I ride harder as well with less of a worry of breaking expensive kit, weirdly.
I'm not for or against either (I'm also considering a Plant X track bike), just wondered where the extra £2k goes and whether the Giant at that price is likely to be a better machine than the Canyon (but I have realised that the Giant is integrated seatpost which may not be great for flying with the bike, but that's a topic for another day) 
okgo said:
Its not noticeably better or worse than any other top end frames from any brand. They stick a cadence sensor in the frame, that's about the only thing I can think makes them any different.
I think all top end Giant frames have the sensor built into the frame as well.In regards to the Giant TCR Advanced 1, I have just bought one and the difference between that and my old Planet X is massive. The Planet X is a great bike for the money but I couldn't believe the flex in the frame/BB area when really going for it compared to the Giant for example which has a massive BB area like the Cervelo's.
okgo said:
DoubleSix said:
Best frame technology comes from the Trek camp imo, quality is second to none.
Its not noticeably better or worse than any other top end frames from any brand. They stick a cadence sensor in the frame, that's about the only thing I can think makes them any different.When I used to ride semi-pro in the 90's I remember Trek introducing OCLV, they lead the way in tech back then and still do imho.
The head tube on my Fuel-Ex 8 is a wonderfully crafted thing, no discernible flex.
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