997 Clutch Judder, advice needed
Discussion
I'm after some advice on a problem with my 997 clutch please.
Soon after delivery new to me I reported to the dealer that the clutch had a slight 'judder' when held on biting point or when being released gradually. I was asked to 'do a few miles' and see if it settled down, which I did, and now having done 3000 miles and with the problem still existing I seem to be involved in protracted, frustrating and downright stressful dealings with my local dealer and Porsche GB about getting the issue rectified.
The latest 'round' in the discussion is an email from 'my' PCGB representative stating that the dealership technicians agree that the clutch judders, but that they consider this to be within 'acceptable' limits. This simply reiterates what the dealership's line has been. My response, restating what I've already said countless times, is that the only acceptable level of judder in a brand new car is none, that a brand new car should be perfect.
I'd really value any useful opinion or experiences of forum members.
Thanks,
Phil.
Soon after delivery new to me I reported to the dealer that the clutch had a slight 'judder' when held on biting point or when being released gradually. I was asked to 'do a few miles' and see if it settled down, which I did, and now having done 3000 miles and with the problem still existing I seem to be involved in protracted, frustrating and downright stressful dealings with my local dealer and Porsche GB about getting the issue rectified.
The latest 'round' in the discussion is an email from 'my' PCGB representative stating that the dealership technicians agree that the clutch judders, but that they consider this to be within 'acceptable' limits. This simply reiterates what the dealership's line has been. My response, restating what I've already said countless times, is that the only acceptable level of judder in a brand new car is none, that a brand new car should be perfect.
I'd really value any useful opinion or experiences of forum members.
Thanks,
Phil.
what year is the car, and how many miles had it done when you bought it (assuming used)? It's not clear if it's a brand new 0 mile car, as you say "new to me" in your post.
Just to give my experience: my GT3 had about 11k on it when I bought it. After say 5k it also started to judder a bit, which became very pronounced in reverse. This would be inconsistent, depending on how the car was used, and how hot everything was (e.g. sometimes more judder after a long drive with everything up to temp, and vice versa when cold). No slipping and clutch performed perfectly otherwise.
Some 5k later or so I had an RMS leak on mine, so gearbox/engine came out to replace it. I got the clutch changed as a precaution, even though the friction plate wasn't even half worn. Had the flywheel resurfaced and new bearing etc...
I've not done than much on the new clutch, maybe 2-3k, but I still do get a little judder in reverse sometimes. Again it's not consistent, and comes and goes. This is with an all new clutch and resurfaced flywheel, so there is no used or worn out parts causing this, it's just a characteristic of the GT3 clutch. Now I'm not sure if how much clutches differ between GT3 and carerra - but I would imagine they are completely different as they mate to different engines.
Are you getting any slip from the clutch? Is the biting point high?
Just to give my experience: my GT3 had about 11k on it when I bought it. After say 5k it also started to judder a bit, which became very pronounced in reverse. This would be inconsistent, depending on how the car was used, and how hot everything was (e.g. sometimes more judder after a long drive with everything up to temp, and vice versa when cold). No slipping and clutch performed perfectly otherwise.
Some 5k later or so I had an RMS leak on mine, so gearbox/engine came out to replace it. I got the clutch changed as a precaution, even though the friction plate wasn't even half worn. Had the flywheel resurfaced and new bearing etc...
I've not done than much on the new clutch, maybe 2-3k, but I still do get a little judder in reverse sometimes. Again it's not consistent, and comes and goes. This is with an all new clutch and resurfaced flywheel, so there is no used or worn out parts causing this, it's just a characteristic of the GT3 clutch. Now I'm not sure if how much clutches differ between GT3 and carerra - but I would imagine they are completely different as they mate to different engines.
Are you getting any slip from the clutch? Is the biting point high?
Hi Simma, thanks for your reply.
Apologies for not being clear, the car was brand new to me, on a '10' plate with all but zero miles. It's a Sport Classic and therefore being a more road-biased car I imagine the clutch is different. My Caterham has a race clutch on and this can judder sometimes, but this was explained to me when I specified it. On a road 997 I don't think any vibration is acceptable. There's no clutch slip and I've not noticed the biting point to be out of the ordinary.
Cheers.
Apologies for not being clear, the car was brand new to me, on a '10' plate with all but zero miles. It's a Sport Classic and therefore being a more road-biased car I imagine the clutch is different. My Caterham has a race clutch on and this can judder sometimes, but this was explained to me when I specified it. On a road 997 I don't think any vibration is acceptable. There's no clutch slip and I've not noticed the biting point to be out of the ordinary.
Cheers.
What it could be is debris build up on the flywheel (possibly from lots of short distance movements in/out of workshop or on/off transporters). This can usually be burnt off by driving it in say 4th at 30mph, dipping the clutch then revving it quite hard and letting the clutch out slowly - what you're trying to do is get the clutch to slip a bit for a moment, in the hope that it burns off the debris and solves your problem.
I've done this on a few cars and it usually works very well (but once on a 150,000 mile BMW it did finish the (original) clutch off, but it was only a £300 job all in). It was certainly a better solution than BMW did under warranty on a 2 year old 320Ci - they replaced the complete gearbox, clutch and flywheel. It solved the problem (because everything was new), but it returned a few months later and having been taught the trick above I tried it and it worked. So much for main dealer technicians diagnoses!
I've done this on a few cars and it usually works very well (but once on a 150,000 mile BMW it did finish the (original) clutch off, but it was only a £300 job all in). It was certainly a better solution than BMW did under warranty on a 2 year old 320Ci - they replaced the complete gearbox, clutch and flywheel. It solved the problem (because everything was new), but it returned a few months later and having been taught the trick above I tried it and it worked. So much for main dealer technicians diagnoses!
@thegoose,
Makes sense, but I don't think I should try this- I'm keen this remains Porsche's problem to solve, not mine!
@Buster,
That's an odd coincidence! I don't think so though as Porsche seem to accept it's the clutch at fault as they say in their last email... "Please be assured that should the level of judder have been deemed unacceptable, the clutch would have been repaired or replaced."
What are folks' thoughts on how acceptable a juddering clutch is on a brand new car? Does anybody have any experience they can share in dealing with this company?
Makes sense, but I don't think I should try this- I'm keen this remains Porsche's problem to solve, not mine!
@Buster,
That's an odd coincidence! I don't think so though as Porsche seem to accept it's the clutch at fault as they say in their last email... "Please be assured that should the level of judder have been deemed unacceptable, the clutch would have been repaired or replaced."
What are folks' thoughts on how acceptable a juddering clutch is on a brand new car? Does anybody have any experience they can share in dealing with this company?
Clutch judder in reverse on GT3 is standard according to most owners/porsche forums, same as the occational smoking on start up. Different engine (definately) and clutch (I think) on GT3.
It does sound a little strange, does giving it a little more rev's when pulling off make a difference or do you get the judder no matter what rev's you've got??
It does sound a little strange, does giving it a little more rev's when pulling off make a difference or do you get the judder no matter what rev's you've got??
Don't know if it helps, but my 2000 986 has also has had quite a pronounced judder in first gear pull away ever since the day I got it three years ago, but once everything is fully warmed through it goes away, and it certainly hasn't got any worse.
The C2S 997 that my OPC lent me about a year ago which had only 800 miles on it did exactly the same, as does a good friend of mine's, which is also an OPC supplied, under warranty car, and once they are warmed up it reduces to a point where you can't feel it. I'm sure I read on a thread yonks ago that if it is genuine clutch slip it shows first when reversing up a slight incline.
FYI I tried the trick with 4th gear as described earlier and it definitely helped too.
More revs alleviates it also, but on mine it's just the box telling you to sod off until its warmed up!
HTH
The C2S 997 that my OPC lent me about a year ago which had only 800 miles on it did exactly the same, as does a good friend of mine's, which is also an OPC supplied, under warranty car, and once they are warmed up it reduces to a point where you can't feel it. I'm sure I read on a thread yonks ago that if it is genuine clutch slip it shows first when reversing up a slight incline.
FYI I tried the trick with 4th gear as described earlier and it definitely helped too.
More revs alleviates it also, but on mine it's just the box telling you to sod off until its warmed up!
HTH
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