How do you quieten this bloody engine?
Discussion
My engine currently has Valvoline fully synthetic 0w/40 but it sounds very tappety when warm (worse than when cold!!) I've had the tappets checked and they are 'within limits'. I'm going to change to Magnatec 10w/40 to try and quieten things down. I've had advice off Castrol uk who emailed me to tell me that it is ok to put in semi-synthetic after fully, with no side affects. What are your thought fellow PH'ers.
It had an engine rebuild in 2002 so I would imagine it was updated to newer cams etc. The bloke at castrol has just emailed me again and said that using a 0w-40, 5w-40 or 10w-40 would have no difference on sound but he recommends Castrol formula RS 10w-60 as this is the thickest fully synthetic at high temperatures. And I've just gone and bought some cheap Magnatec!!........ Ebay I think!
An interesting read.... (from the net)
What about Ionically Charge Oil Particles? Enter Castrol Magantec.
Pardon? Sounds like something out of Star Trek doesn't it? Well there's an increasing trend in the industry now to try something a little different. It seems that a couple of the big players are now experimenting with charge oil molecules which attract themselves to engine parts with no other additives. The idea is, to simplify it, magnetic oil. The oil sticks to the engine parts when the engine is turned off, and is theoretically still there, ready to protect, when you next turn the engine on. The first big player on the scene with this was Burmah Castrol with their Castrol Magnatec oil. Theoretically, this type of product is a far safer bet than an additive, and so far I've heard nothing but glowing reports about it. But just stop and think for a moment - why have these companies now decided to go this route? Are they admitting that the older additives with suspended solids in them were perhaps not such a miracle after all?
Truly magnetic?
A U.S. Coast Guard Machinery Technician recently emailed me with some interesting observations. If you know enough about chemistry, you'll know that oil is a non-ionic compound which is one of the properties that precludes it from mixing readily with water (which is an ionic compound). What does this mean? It means that the ionization potential for oil is nil. No ionization potential = no magnetism. Chemists may be able to synthesize an ionic compound that replicates the characteristics of oil such as viscosity, surface tension, etc, but then would it really be an oil?
Still reading? Okay - it gets even more complicated then:
The real reason oil and water do not mix has everything to do with their polar strength. This has to do with whether the electrons are equally shared or not. Water is a highly polar substance, the oxygen atom somewhat steals the electrons from the hydrogen atoms, giving it a partial negative charge. Because of this, and the way an water molecule is shaped, the water molecules attract strongly to each other, much like magnets.
Still with me?
Oil, on the other hand, is a weakly polar substance because the electrons are mostly evenly "shared". Because of this, the water molecules attract each other more strongly than they attract oil particles. The reason that they do not visibly mix is because the water-water attraction is stronger than the water-oil attraction, so the water-water attraction must be broken in favor for a weaker attraction costing energy that isn't there. Thus, most oil molecules do not mix with the water.
Hey - you're still reading so far, so obviously you wanted to know. I'll continue:
The oil could have a polymer additive (since oil manufacturers DO add stuff to their oil), which might work, since polymers can have ionizing polar groups on them. You can thank reader Kenny for that last little bit of weird science....
July 2004 Update Interestingly, Castrol Magnatec was NOT available in the U.S. until July 2004. A reader of my site called two national Castrol distributors and they told him that Castrol's equivalent is the Syntec line but they couldn't confirm that it was the same as the Magnatec. They really doubted that they were the same, as the GTX is a different formula than Syntec. An email to Castrol's website confirmed this suspicion but they wouldn't explain why Magnatec was only available overseas. If you go to www.castrol.com and then www.castrolusa.com you will notice the product descriptions don't even read close to being the same thing. Confusing as usual with any big corporation - there's no straight answer. Then in July 2004, Castrol started advertising Castrol GTX Startup. It's basically the same thing as Magnatec, but with a different name. Another email to Castrol resulted in a brief phone conversation with them. I asked why they'd waited so long to bring the same product out in North America when it had been available in Europe for at least 6 years previously. There was no good answer. Now the product is available in the US, I expect the volume of emails on this subject to double :-)
What about Ionically Charge Oil Particles? Enter Castrol Magantec.
Pardon? Sounds like something out of Star Trek doesn't it? Well there's an increasing trend in the industry now to try something a little different. It seems that a couple of the big players are now experimenting with charge oil molecules which attract themselves to engine parts with no other additives. The idea is, to simplify it, magnetic oil. The oil sticks to the engine parts when the engine is turned off, and is theoretically still there, ready to protect, when you next turn the engine on. The first big player on the scene with this was Burmah Castrol with their Castrol Magnatec oil. Theoretically, this type of product is a far safer bet than an additive, and so far I've heard nothing but glowing reports about it. But just stop and think for a moment - why have these companies now decided to go this route? Are they admitting that the older additives with suspended solids in them were perhaps not such a miracle after all?
Truly magnetic?
A U.S. Coast Guard Machinery Technician recently emailed me with some interesting observations. If you know enough about chemistry, you'll know that oil is a non-ionic compound which is one of the properties that precludes it from mixing readily with water (which is an ionic compound). What does this mean? It means that the ionization potential for oil is nil. No ionization potential = no magnetism. Chemists may be able to synthesize an ionic compound that replicates the characteristics of oil such as viscosity, surface tension, etc, but then would it really be an oil?
Still reading? Okay - it gets even more complicated then:
The real reason oil and water do not mix has everything to do with their polar strength. This has to do with whether the electrons are equally shared or not. Water is a highly polar substance, the oxygen atom somewhat steals the electrons from the hydrogen atoms, giving it a partial negative charge. Because of this, and the way an water molecule is shaped, the water molecules attract strongly to each other, much like magnets.
Still with me?
Oil, on the other hand, is a weakly polar substance because the electrons are mostly evenly "shared". Because of this, the water molecules attract each other more strongly than they attract oil particles. The reason that they do not visibly mix is because the water-water attraction is stronger than the water-oil attraction, so the water-water attraction must be broken in favor for a weaker attraction costing energy that isn't there. Thus, most oil molecules do not mix with the water.
Hey - you're still reading so far, so obviously you wanted to know. I'll continue:
The oil could have a polymer additive (since oil manufacturers DO add stuff to their oil), which might work, since polymers can have ionizing polar groups on them. You can thank reader Kenny for that last little bit of weird science....
July 2004 Update Interestingly, Castrol Magnatec was NOT available in the U.S. until July 2004. A reader of my site called two national Castrol distributors and they told him that Castrol's equivalent is the Syntec line but they couldn't confirm that it was the same as the Magnatec. They really doubted that they were the same, as the GTX is a different formula than Syntec. An email to Castrol's website confirmed this suspicion but they wouldn't explain why Magnatec was only available overseas. If you go to www.castrol.com and then www.castrolusa.com you will notice the product descriptions don't even read close to being the same thing. Confusing as usual with any big corporation - there's no straight answer. Then in July 2004, Castrol started advertising Castrol GTX Startup. It's basically the same thing as Magnatec, but with a different name. Another email to Castrol resulted in a brief phone conversation with them. I asked why they'd waited so long to bring the same product out in North America when it had been available in Europe for at least 6 years previously. There was no good answer. Now the product is available in the US, I expect the volume of emails on this subject to double :-)
www.millersoils.net/index2.html
You can order it online straight to your door
.
Great reputation Millers, think Joospeed mentioned using this oil in a thread too
.
Duncan
You can order it online straight to your door
. Great reputation Millers, think Joospeed mentioned using this oil in a thread too
. Duncan
Duncan, somewhere someone told me once, the ideal oil would be 0w-60w....
I see on the Millers site there is an oil called Nitro 70.... 70w I suppose....
Would the cerbera be better off with higher viscosity at high temps? (lame question, but i'm getting mixed opinions from many on this one)
Manual recommends Mobil1 0-40w....
Joo put the stronger stuff in last time, but still cant get my heard round it, the higher the rating, the better?
I see on the Millers site there is an oil called Nitro 70.... 70w I suppose....
Would the cerbera be better off with higher viscosity at high temps? (lame question, but i'm getting mixed opinions from many on this one)
Manual recommends Mobil1 0-40w....
Joo put the stronger stuff in last time, but still cant get my heard round it, the higher the rating, the better?
Joo, what did you put in mine the last service gone, she ran smooth as a new born babys bum... I mean no noise at all, just grunt.... now I'm topping her with magnatec and it helps a little, but no where near as good as before....
what about oil additives, any use, or just mumbo jumbo?
what about oil additives, any use, or just mumbo jumbo?
"SAE (Society of automobile engineers ) has allocated numbers for specifying the viscosity of Engine Oils.
The SAE grades 0W through 25W, where W stands for Winter, have a maximum viscosity specified at low temperatures (—5 through —35°C), to ensure easy starting under low temperature conditions, and a minimum viscosity requirement at 100°C to ensure satisfactory lubrication at the final operating temperature. The SAE grades 20 through 60 only have limits set at 100°C as these grades are not intended for use under low temperature conditions.
For marine applications, monograde oils of SAE 30 or SAE 40 are used because of the steady operating conditions in a ship's engine room.
On the other hand, automotive oils are normally formulated with Viscosity Index Improvers (VI Improvers) to provide multigrade performance. VI Improvers are very large molecules, which are chemically made by linking together smaller molecules in a process called polymerization. The resulting products, called polymers, may have molecular weights 1000 times or more greater than the base stock molecules. The use of these special polymers makes it possible to meet both the low temperature viscosity requirements of the W grades as well as the high temperature requirements of the non-W grades. Thus a SAE 20W 40 has the low temperature viscosity value of a SAE 20W oil at low temperatures and the high temperature viscosity of a SAE 40 oil at the higher temperature."
SXS,
I'm not an oil guru but imo the most important figure is the high temp figure.
Especially in a silly power V8.
10w-60 is spot on for the AJP8.
The low figure is for cold viscosity but you have to bare in mind how loose the AJP8 is and a 0w-40 is too thin I think.
All imo and happy to be proven wrong by anyone who knows better.
Duncan
I'm not an oil guru but imo the most important figure is the high temp figure.
Especially in a silly power V8
. 10w-60 is spot on for the AJP8.
The low figure is for cold viscosity but you have to bare in mind how loose the AJP8 is and a 0w-40 is too thin I think.
All imo and happy to be proven wrong by anyone who knows better
. Duncan
Ash .. you've got Carlube oil just like the dealers use .. in 5W/40 viscosity.
what you may have noticed maybe is the effect of changing the pressure relief spring as mentioned above in the earlier post .. I fit a new one every service, at a couple of quid it's cheap insurance on an expensive engine.
what you may have noticed maybe is the effect of changing the pressure relief spring as mentioned above in the earlier post .. I fit a new one every service, at a couple of quid it's cheap insurance on an expensive engine.
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