Question for the 'wrinklies' (like me) on here
Discussion
When i started drving in 1964 in North London (other areas may be different), that during darkness in built up areas, all vehicles were running on sidelights only. It was VERY rare to see a car with headlights on.
Can anyone recall when the change over started whereby headlights were commonly used?.
I think that the first instance of headlight use were Motorcycles.....'See and Be Seen' springs to mind in possibly one of the road safety films we used to see on a Sat pm on ITV along with all the DIY and car accessory ads
Sometimes i feel that going back to sidelights in 30mph urban areas might be more beneficial as back then you could see pedestrians a lot easier than now. The downside of this is that the peds have been programmed to look out for headlights and would not associate sidelights with a moving vehicle ( although the advent of these 'fairy lights' now being fitted could be used as an alternative.
On the other hand i think it is still legal to drive in 30 limits on sidelights? not that i could in the Volvo, but in the other car i can!!
Can anyone recall when the change over started whereby headlights were commonly used?.
I think that the first instance of headlight use were Motorcycles.....'See and Be Seen' springs to mind in possibly one of the road safety films we used to see on a Sat pm on ITV along with all the DIY and car accessory ads
Sometimes i feel that going back to sidelights in 30mph urban areas might be more beneficial as back then you could see pedestrians a lot easier than now. The downside of this is that the peds have been programmed to look out for headlights and would not associate sidelights with a moving vehicle ( although the advent of these 'fairy lights' now being fitted could be used as an alternative.
On the other hand i think it is still legal to drive in 30 limits on sidelights? not that i could in the Volvo, but in the other car i can!!
IF the morons in Europe had have specified that rear lights were lit all the time as well as front DRLs and the dash, then there'd be little need for headlights at all in the city at night. Now I see quite a few people driving about with their front DRLs shining away and their dash lit up, but nothing on at the back.
My Astra lights it's dash up during the day, only a tiny green light tells me if the auto lights have turned themselves on.
My Astra lights it's dash up during the day, only a tiny green light tells me if the auto lights have turned themselves on.
FoundOnRoadside said:
IF the morons in Europe had have specified that rear lights were lit all the time as well as front DRLs and the dash, then there'd be little need for headlights at all in the city at night. Now I see quite a few people driving about with their front DRLs shining away and their dash lit up, but nothing on at the back.
My Astra lights it's dash up during the day, only a tiny green light tells me if the auto lights have turned themselves on.
If they'd done that there'd be even more of those morons driving into a ditch when they got out of street lit areas!My Astra lights it's dash up during the day, only a tiny green light tells me if the auto lights have turned themselves on.
Agree - with permanently on dash lights and autolights it's a real pain to know if your lights are on. On my 1 series I couldn't see the tiny green light unless it was dark enough to know if the lights were on - grrrr.
Lighting requirements (113-116)
113
You MUST
•ensure all sidelights and rear registration plate lights are lit between sunset and sunrise
•use headlights at night, except on a road which has lit street lighting. These roads are generally restricted to a speed limit of 30 mph (48 km/h) unless otherwise specified
•use headlights when visibility is seriously reduced (see Rule 226)
Night (the hours of darkness) is defined as the period between half an hour after sunset and half an hour before sunrise).
[Laws RVLR regs 3, 24, & 25, (In Scotland - RTRA 1984 sect 82 (as amended by NRSWA, para 59 of sched 8))]
Driving in adverse weather conditions (226-237)
114
You MUST NOT
•use any lights in a way which would dazzle or cause discomfort to other road users, including pedestrians, cyclists and horse riders
•use front or rear fog lights unless visibility is seriously reduced. You MUST switch them off when visibility improves to avoid dazzling other road users (see Rule 226)
In stationary queues of traffic, drivers should apply the parking brake and, once the following traffic has stopped, take their foot off the footbrake to deactivate the vehicle brake lights. This will minimise glare to road users behind until the traffic moves again.
[Law RVLR reg 27]
Driving in adverse weather conditions (226-237)
115
You should also
•use dipped headlights, or dim-dip if fitted, at night in built-up areas and in dull daytime weather, to ensure that you can be seen
•keep your headlights dipped when overtaking until you are level with the other vehicle and then change to main beam if necessary, unless this would dazzle oncoming road users
•slow down, and if necessary stop, if you are dazzled by oncoming headlights
Some confusion between MUST and SHOULD
113
You MUST
•ensure all sidelights and rear registration plate lights are lit between sunset and sunrise
•use headlights at night, except on a road which has lit street lighting. These roads are generally restricted to a speed limit of 30 mph (48 km/h) unless otherwise specified
•use headlights when visibility is seriously reduced (see Rule 226)
Night (the hours of darkness) is defined as the period between half an hour after sunset and half an hour before sunrise).
[Laws RVLR regs 3, 24, & 25, (In Scotland - RTRA 1984 sect 82 (as amended by NRSWA, para 59 of sched 8))]
Driving in adverse weather conditions (226-237)
114
You MUST NOT
•use any lights in a way which would dazzle or cause discomfort to other road users, including pedestrians, cyclists and horse riders
•use front or rear fog lights unless visibility is seriously reduced. You MUST switch them off when visibility improves to avoid dazzling other road users (see Rule 226)
In stationary queues of traffic, drivers should apply the parking brake and, once the following traffic has stopped, take their foot off the footbrake to deactivate the vehicle brake lights. This will minimise glare to road users behind until the traffic moves again.
[Law RVLR reg 27]
Driving in adverse weather conditions (226-237)
115
You should also
•use dipped headlights, or dim-dip if fitted, at night in built-up areas and in dull daytime weather, to ensure that you can be seen
•keep your headlights dipped when overtaking until you are level with the other vehicle and then change to main beam if necessary, unless this would dazzle oncoming road users
•slow down, and if necessary stop, if you are dazzled by oncoming headlights
Some confusion between MUST and SHOULD
On a slightly different tack. Is it my dodgy memory or did most London Police cars drive around on sidelights unless 'on a shout'? As recently as Rover 827/ Sierra GLS days anyway,in fact a good way to spot plain Traffic cars at night was the fact they were the only modern cars without their headlamps on.
sticks090460 said:
I seem to remember it was when Volvos were supplied with their headlights on permananently - early '70s?
Indeed they were. Over some years Volvo largely desisted because of market resistance. Volvo cars have become more mainstream over the years.I started driving in 1963 and there was a plethora of differences between driving then and now. The sheer volume of traffic now is completely different. Then I could happily four wheel drift around corners in country lanes. There was no traffic. Now I would be off the road and in a charge first time. Because I would hit someone.
Defensive driving is essential now. Different experience in every way IMO. That's progress. I think.
Courtesy of Wikipedia,
"United Kingdom
"U.K. regulations briefly required vehicles first used on or after 1 April 1987 to be equipped with a dim-dip device. The dim-dip system operated the low beam headlamps (called "dipped beam" in the UK) at between 10% and 20% of normal low-beam intensity. The running lamps permitted as an alternative to dim-dip were required to emit at least 200 candela straight ahead, and no more than 800 candela in any direction. In practice, most vehicles were equipped with the dim-dip option rather than the running lamps.
"The dim-dip lights were not intended for use as daytime running lights. Rather, they operated when the engine was running and the driver switched on the front position (parking) lamps. Dim-dip was intended to provide a nighttime "town beam" with intensity between that of the parking lamps commonly used at the time by British drivers in city traffic after dark, and low beam headlamps; the former were considered insufficiently intense to provide improved conspicuity in conditions requiring it, while the latter were considered too glaring for safe use in built-up areas. The UK was the only country to require such dim-dip systems, though vehicles so equipped were sold in other Commonwealth countries with left-hand traffic.
"In 1988, the European Commission successfully prosecuted the UK government in the European Court of Justice, arguing that the UK requirement for dim-dip was illegal under EC directives prohibiting member states from enacting vehicle lighting requirements not contained in pan-European EC directives. As a result, the UK requirement for dim-dip was quashed."
"United Kingdom
"U.K. regulations briefly required vehicles first used on or after 1 April 1987 to be equipped with a dim-dip device. The dim-dip system operated the low beam headlamps (called "dipped beam" in the UK) at between 10% and 20% of normal low-beam intensity. The running lamps permitted as an alternative to dim-dip were required to emit at least 200 candela straight ahead, and no more than 800 candela in any direction. In practice, most vehicles were equipped with the dim-dip option rather than the running lamps.
"The dim-dip lights were not intended for use as daytime running lights. Rather, they operated when the engine was running and the driver switched on the front position (parking) lamps. Dim-dip was intended to provide a nighttime "town beam" with intensity between that of the parking lamps commonly used at the time by British drivers in city traffic after dark, and low beam headlamps; the former were considered insufficiently intense to provide improved conspicuity in conditions requiring it, while the latter were considered too glaring for safe use in built-up areas. The UK was the only country to require such dim-dip systems, though vehicles so equipped were sold in other Commonwealth countries with left-hand traffic.
"In 1988, the European Commission successfully prosecuted the UK government in the European Court of Justice, arguing that the UK requirement for dim-dip was illegal under EC directives prohibiting member states from enacting vehicle lighting requirements not contained in pan-European EC directives. As a result, the UK requirement for dim-dip was quashed."
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