Back/joint pain
Discussion
Hi all, kind of at the end of my tether here re the above.
Three years ago I was a healthy 23 year old but had a fateful event in the gym deadlifting after a period out put paid to that. The pain soon changed to a weakness in the legs and a literal pain in the neck.
Over the years the pain, joint pain including pelvis knees and ankles has worsened unbelievably, as has my ability and strength. my joints and back crack profusely. I suffer from huge fatigue as a result and am barely holding down a job or my impending marriage as a result.
I've chased diagnosis/treatment- osteos, physios, Chinese meds including accupuncture, a orthopaedic surgeon early on, a couple of rheumatologists and pain clinics.
All that has surfaced is an impingememt at l5 s1. And no one has offered any help apart from offering me some pregabin to calm the pain which I can not live or sleep without.
I am seeing a neurosurgeon privately at the moment, my last throw of the dice before I'm completely immobile I guess. Does anyone have any experience of dealing with them that could perhaps help me? Whenever I am examined, doctors have previously ignored my pleas and have said I appear fine.
Three years ago I was a healthy 23 year old but had a fateful event in the gym deadlifting after a period out put paid to that. The pain soon changed to a weakness in the legs and a literal pain in the neck.
Over the years the pain, joint pain including pelvis knees and ankles has worsened unbelievably, as has my ability and strength. my joints and back crack profusely. I suffer from huge fatigue as a result and am barely holding down a job or my impending marriage as a result.
I've chased diagnosis/treatment- osteos, physios, Chinese meds including accupuncture, a orthopaedic surgeon early on, a couple of rheumatologists and pain clinics.
All that has surfaced is an impingememt at l5 s1. And no one has offered any help apart from offering me some pregabin to calm the pain which I can not live or sleep without.
I am seeing a neurosurgeon privately at the moment, my last throw of the dice before I'm completely immobile I guess. Does anyone have any experience of dealing with them that could perhaps help me? Whenever I am examined, doctors have previously ignored my pleas and have said I appear fine.
Could it me that the original injury has lead to chronic fatigue syndrome in one of its forms? I seem to remember that chronic muscle and joint pain are symptoms.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_fatigue_syndr...
It is one of those things that is phenomenally difficult to diagnose and chase down, not helped by the "we can't measure anything therefore nothing is wrong" attitude of some medical people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_fatigue_syndr...
It is one of those things that is phenomenally difficult to diagnose and chase down, not helped by the "we can't measure anything therefore nothing is wrong" attitude of some medical people.
Finding the cause of back pain can be very difficult. Especially low back pain. To be honest even the experts may not be able to pin-point the exact origin. There is so much stuff down towards the base of your spine that it could be any number of things (at least that's what I've been told by more than a couple of orthopaedic surgeons).
Have you had an MRI scan ? Even this may not diagnose the cause but it's worth a try.
I've had serious back problems for 14 years (spinal injury) and I understand the level of pain you describe. I've seen numerous specialists and the best they can come up with is "non specific low back pain". I have a sacro-iliac joint dysfuction which is part of the problem. This may account for some of the symptoms you describe.
Unfortunately it might be a case of simply managing the pain.
Have you had an MRI scan ? Even this may not diagnose the cause but it's worth a try.
I've had serious back problems for 14 years (spinal injury) and I understand the level of pain you describe. I've seen numerous specialists and the best they can come up with is "non specific low back pain". I have a sacro-iliac joint dysfuction which is part of the problem. This may account for some of the symptoms you describe.
Unfortunately it might be a case of simply managing the pain.
Thanks for the responses. The MRI has only shown an l5 s1 slip.
My rheumatologist advised me that it could not be causing all the pain in my legs. This was the last investigation I had prior to the neurosurgeon I'm seeing at present who will give his own interpretation on the scan.
Alternatively a friend who is a physio thinks that it could be causing my problems, and the joint pain and leg pain caused by nerves not firing the messages to my legs thereby placing greater strain on the joints.
All I know is that the condition is so rapidly getting worse, andthat my body does not tolerate any form of the slightest bit of exertion/exercise.
My rheumatologist advised me that it could not be causing all the pain in my legs. This was the last investigation I had prior to the neurosurgeon I'm seeing at present who will give his own interpretation on the scan.
Alternatively a friend who is a physio thinks that it could be causing my problems, and the joint pain and leg pain caused by nerves not firing the messages to my legs thereby placing greater strain on the joints.
All I know is that the condition is so rapidly getting worse, andthat my body does not tolerate any form of the slightest bit of exertion/exercise.
I had herniation at L4/5, and eventually got to the point the disc was pretty much gone, and the bones made holes in each other rubbing togehter.
As a knock on from that, various muscles just sort of stopped working properly. Physio's opinion was that the pain can stop nerves firing/muscles working etc. Then other muscles which aren't designed to do the job have to over-work to compensate.
I would get pains all over the place; my stomach, sides, ribs, legs, feet - all over the place.
At first we corrected an SI issue (using a belt, and doing a lot of strengthening work on my core, and physio to release the seized joint every week) and that's fine now. Then since a fusion op in January (5-6 years after the initial problem) and a lot of strengthening work and pnysio, gradually the other pains are going, as the muscles start working properly. I''m having to re-learn how to do stuff, as I've got used to doing them all wrong.
The main remaining pains are a bit of an ache in my back, and leg issues due to nerve damage from the op, but overall it's much improved and I'm not fully recovered yet.
So in a long winded way, what I'm saying is, potentially yes you could be right and it's all linked!!
As a knock on from that, various muscles just sort of stopped working properly. Physio's opinion was that the pain can stop nerves firing/muscles working etc. Then other muscles which aren't designed to do the job have to over-work to compensate.
I would get pains all over the place; my stomach, sides, ribs, legs, feet - all over the place.
At first we corrected an SI issue (using a belt, and doing a lot of strengthening work on my core, and physio to release the seized joint every week) and that's fine now. Then since a fusion op in January (5-6 years after the initial problem) and a lot of strengthening work and pnysio, gradually the other pains are going, as the muscles start working properly. I''m having to re-learn how to do stuff, as I've got used to doing them all wrong.
The main remaining pains are a bit of an ache in my back, and leg issues due to nerve damage from the op, but overall it's much improved and I'm not fully recovered yet.
So in a long winded way, what I'm saying is, potentially yes you could be right and it's all linked!!
Gives me hope that surgery and physio might be a (even at least partial) way out of this dreadful situation. I am absolutely dismayed at the time it takes to get physio on the NHS though.
I too have suffered over the past 2.5 years of parts of my body effectively just switching off, particularly around the leg and trunk area, especially after attempts to exercise as I am an exercise addict and get really infuriated where the amount I can do gets less and less, and I eventually am turning into a fat blob! I really have reached the stage now where even very lightly swimming a length will really adversely affect my health.
I too have suffered over the past 2.5 years of parts of my body effectively just switching off, particularly around the leg and trunk area, especially after attempts to exercise as I am an exercise addict and get really infuriated where the amount I can do gets less and less, and I eventually am turning into a fat blob! I really have reached the stage now where even very lightly swimming a length will really adversely affect my health.
Osteopath treatment and changing my work activities has helped me.
I have 2 slipped discs of which the lower one is just a leaky mess.
Keeping on the move at work has done wonders for my back strength.I dont get pain anymore,at it's worst I couldnt walk and my right leg and side of my foot would be tingling and numb.It came close to costing me my job.
I have also seen a consultant who is going to be giving me caudal epidural injections as a precaution.I wont lie to you,it has taken almost 12 months to be on the right track rectifying this.You have to push and push to get what you want from the nhs,its depressing.
The osteopath I used was very good,around 40 quid per session.Physio did nothing for me,traction made me worse.
You can get better.You will get better but you will have to be very careful what you do with your back now.I have a new found respect for mine,you only get one and it cant be replaced.
I have 2 slipped discs of which the lower one is just a leaky mess.
Keeping on the move at work has done wonders for my back strength.I dont get pain anymore,at it's worst I couldnt walk and my right leg and side of my foot would be tingling and numb.It came close to costing me my job.
I have also seen a consultant who is going to be giving me caudal epidural injections as a precaution.I wont lie to you,it has taken almost 12 months to be on the right track rectifying this.You have to push and push to get what you want from the nhs,its depressing.
The osteopath I used was very good,around 40 quid per session.Physio did nothing for me,traction made me worse.
You can get better.You will get better but you will have to be very careful what you do with your back now.I have a new found respect for mine,you only get one and it cant be replaced.
I do have hope, but where I've got weaker and weaker over the past 2.5 and pain and joint problems have also got worse, it is filling me with the heaviest dread. It has all but completely ostracized me from my friend groups and in really fearful of the work situation as I'm clinging on for dear life.
I am hobbling about because I have lost so much strength in my legs/trunk area.
I looked through my previous mri and the only mention of anything adverse is a central prolapse at l5s1.
Has any one had experience of a discogram?
I am hobbling about because I have lost so much strength in my legs/trunk area.
I looked through my previous mri and the only mention of anything adverse is a central prolapse at l5s1.
Has any one had experience of a discogram?
Yes I had a discogram. After the discectomy in 2010 the pain reoccured, and it was the final step before a fusion op, to prove it was definitely the disc causing the pain. (BTW the op was originally planned to be an ADR - disc replacement - but due to poor condition of the bones it wasn't possible. Worth investigating potentially though).
I don't remember a thing! I remember being wheeled into the operating theatre, then I "woke up" half way through a conversation with a nurse. They gave me some sort of drug that sedates you (but you are still awake) but also kills the memory somehow :s
Plus they injected local anaesthetic in, so for a few days afterwards, I had a fair bit of relief!
The physio I use, uses a combination of treatments; acupuncture type needs, K-tape, manipulation, exercises & stretches, etc. etc. and I found that worked the best - rather than having to pick "discipline" I got the best of all worlds !
I don't remember a thing! I remember being wheeled into the operating theatre, then I "woke up" half way through a conversation with a nurse. They gave me some sort of drug that sedates you (but you are still awake) but also kills the memory somehow :s
Plus they injected local anaesthetic in, so for a few days afterwards, I had a fair bit of relief!
The physio I use, uses a combination of treatments; acupuncture type needs, K-tape, manipulation, exercises & stretches, etc. etc. and I found that worked the best - rather than having to pick "discipline" I got the best of all worlds !
dreamer75 said:
Yes I had a discogram. After the discectomy in 2010 the pain reoccured, and it was the final step before a fusion op, to prove it was definitely the disc causing the pain. (BTW the op was originally planned to be an ADR - disc replacement - but due to poor condition of the bones it wasn't possible. Worth investigating potentially though).
I don't remember a thing! I remember being wheeled into the operating theatre, then I "woke up" half way through a conversation with a nurse. They gave me some sort of drug that sedates you (but you are still awake) but also kills the memory somehow :s
Plus they injected local anaesthetic in, so for a few days afterwards, I had a fair bit of relief!
The physio I use, uses a combination of treatments; acupuncture type needs, K-tape, manipulation, exercises & stretches, etc. etc. and I found that worked the best - rather than having to pick "discipline" I got the best of all worlds !
Glad to hear that you are on the up. I don't remember a thing! I remember being wheeled into the operating theatre, then I "woke up" half way through a conversation with a nurse. They gave me some sort of drug that sedates you (but you are still awake) but also kills the memory somehow :s
Plus they injected local anaesthetic in, so for a few days afterwards, I had a fair bit of relief!
The physio I use, uses a combination of treatments; acupuncture type needs, K-tape, manipulation, exercises & stretches, etc. etc. and I found that worked the best - rather than having to pick "discipline" I got the best of all worlds !
My situation just feels like it has gone from bad to worse, to critical! It really is giving me such a low quality of life so I hope the neurosurgeon has something to offer that will at least improve my quality of life.
Was so depressing watching mates play football yesterday and barely being able to coordinate myself when the ball came to me, because my legs are so weak
Believe me it's not all plain sailing And I had years of issues in the run up to the surgery - I have a fair few residuals and can totally empathise !
I can now stnad up for more than 5 minutes at a time, so I've been able to go to a couple of "days out". But I got in the Caterham on Saturday for the first time in a year (!!!) to see if I could even sit in it, and my feet are so jerky that throttle control is somewhat interesting.
But at least I can sit in it I suppose !
When things are bad it is very depressing (properly) and it gets hard to cope. I watched almost all of my 30's disappear (I'm 37 this year) and it's horrible. Now I'm facing the fact I'll never do some of the things I took for granted, but I would swap that for pain free and being able to do most "normal" stuff !
Persevere for a diagnosis and remember there is a light at the end of the tunnel!
And I had years of issues in the run up to the surgery - I have a fair few residuals and can totally empathise !I can now stnad up for more than 5 minutes at a time, so I've been able to go to a couple of "days out". But I got in the Caterham on Saturday for the first time in a year (!!!) to see if I could even sit in it, and my feet are so jerky that throttle control is somewhat interesting.
But at least I can sit in it I suppose !
When things are bad it is very depressing (properly) and it gets hard to cope. I watched almost all of my 30's disappear (I'm 37 this year) and it's horrible. Now I'm facing the fact I'll never do some of the things I took for granted, but I would swap that for pain free and being able to do most "normal" stuff !
Persevere for a diagnosis and remember there is a light at the end of the tunnel!
Ah, those inescapable dark moments...
Physio and any form of physical exercise only seems to exacerbate things at the moment so it literally is like having my life on hold until my case progresses with the neurosurgeon http://www.londonbridgehospital.com/LBH/consultant...
Physio and any form of physical exercise only seems to exacerbate things at the moment so it literally is like having my life on hold until my case progresses with the neurosurgeon http://www.londonbridgehospital.com/LBH/consultant...
Have you tried acupuncture for pain relief? My physio used needles on me a few times - when the physios use them it's a combination of getting deep muscle spasms to try and release, and some of the pain relieving pressure points?
Might work (didn't help me much but did help a little bit)?
Might work (didn't help me much but did help a little bit)?
When you say an impingement at L5/S1 - do you mean the disc is screwed?
Just curious why they would prescribe pregablin (which I guess similar to gabapentin which I have epxerience of) to address nerve pain, but then not look at treatimg the root cause (assuming it's the L5/S1 problem). Did they say why? Can you push for a solution to the impingement (I'm assuming you mean the disc is herniated but I could be way off !?)
Just curious why they would prescribe pregablin (which I guess similar to gabapentin which I have epxerience of) to address nerve pain, but then not look at treatimg the root cause (assuming it's the L5/S1 problem). Did they say why? Can you push for a solution to the impingement (I'm assuming you mean the disc is herniated but I could be way off !?)
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