My problem with single marque car clubs
Discussion
I have recently decided not to renew my membership to a certain marque's car club. I don't think I'll be missed.
Does anyone find that car/marque specific car clubs can be a bit of a double edged sword? I mean that in the sense that on one hand you get access to a lot of technical info that is otherwise tricky to find but on the other hand if you wander away from the norm then you end up getting called on it.
I wish there was a car club that was not marque/model specific, with a vibrant and frequently used forum and a wide and interesting membership. I don't mean something like the HRCR (already a member, great club
), VSCC (snap ) etc, just a classic car club where any make/model is welcome as well as people who are not focused on polishing a tralier queen for shows.
To a degree this secion of PH gives me that but it isn't really a technical forum, more of a general chat forum (which is great of course.)
I'd really like to be part of something where there are meets in real life and people actually get out there and use the cars as they were intended.
Anyway, I don't really know what I want and I'm rambling now.
Does anyone find that car/marque specific car clubs can be a bit of a double edged sword? I mean that in the sense that on one hand you get access to a lot of technical info that is otherwise tricky to find but on the other hand if you wander away from the norm then you end up getting called on it.
I wish there was a car club that was not marque/model specific, with a vibrant and frequently used forum and a wide and interesting membership. I don't mean something like the HRCR (already a member, great club
), VSCC (snap ) etc, just a classic car club where any make/model is welcome as well as people who are not focused on polishing a tralier queen for shows.To a degree this secion of PH gives me that but it isn't really a technical forum, more of a general chat forum (which is great of course.)
I'd really like to be part of something where there are meets in real life and people actually get out there and use the cars as they were intended.
Anyway, I don't really know what I want and I'm rambling now.
I'm staggered how poor the turn-outs are for most single-marque car-club meets that I attend. Often less than 5% of the membership for even major events and most of those are the same people who will always turn up. Likewise on the forums: it's always the same core group who contribute. So what are the other 95% in there for? I can think of only one reason: classic car insurance eligibility.
The problem with ours is that the majority of its members are largely based in the southern half of UK and therefore the majority of events and meets are based naturally enough in that area, which pretty much limits the benefits for me to online, the monthly mag and the odd Scottish meet with 2 or 3 cars, but hey I knew that when I joined, however I do swither each year when the membership renewal comes around.
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I can only write about the Riley Motor Club (of which I'm a director) which has been going since 1925. We have members around the world though most are in the UK; we sell spares, provide technical advice, have a DVLA officer, have a comprehensive archive of pre-war Riley material, have local monthly meetings, attend shows and organise weekend rallies with the emphasis on touring rather than polishing, our annual National Rally is the only time we have a concours.
We definitely don't look down on those whose cars are not 'the norm' (few pre-war Rileys remain exactly as they came from the factory) and my own '63 One-Point-Five is far from standard. The turn out at events varies, at best we'll get maybe 10-12% of UK members to a national event but we don't get uptight about it, we still have a lot of fun.
I hesitate to mention the club's magazine as I edit and design it but it's full colour, bi-monthly and seems to go down well with members. We don't have a club insurance scheme with any single broker though several advertise in the magazine.
What do our members pay £30 a year for? Probably a combination of all the above. If you want a multi-make classic car forum, this one is worth a look: http://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk/forum/phpbb/phpBB2/...
We definitely don't look down on those whose cars are not 'the norm' (few pre-war Rileys remain exactly as they came from the factory) and my own '63 One-Point-Five is far from standard. The turn out at events varies, at best we'll get maybe 10-12% of UK members to a national event but we don't get uptight about it, we still have a lot of fun.
I hesitate to mention the club's magazine as I edit and design it but it's full colour, bi-monthly and seems to go down well with members. We don't have a club insurance scheme with any single broker though several advertise in the magazine.
What do our members pay £30 a year for? Probably a combination of all the above. If you want a multi-make classic car forum, this one is worth a look: http://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk/forum/phpbb/phpBB2/...
A certain prewar marque club that my family and I have had dealings with was a very poor experience. The issues mainly stemmed from the very stubborn chairman, who was basically dishonest and took advantage of certain things without our permission. On the other side, other members that we met were lovely folk (who happened to share our opinions of this chairman).
The problem was that when one person holds the things that keep it together you can't really challenge it
The problem was that when one person holds the things that keep it together you can't really challenge it
The problem I found with single marque clubs (not so much classics, but any) is that you end up with a bunch of guys with whom the only thing you have in common is that you have the same car.
Conversation is therefore limited and I find can get tedious.
However, somewhere like PistonHeads where we all have a common interest; simply, cars - means I've found over the years people with a common interest and (specifically through PH) people who I now truly consider my very good friends.
It's a slight over simplification, I admit, but that's a big part of single marque clubs for me.
Conversation is therefore limited and I find can get tedious.
However, somewhere like PistonHeads where we all have a common interest; simply, cars - means I've found over the years people with a common interest and (specifically through PH) people who I now truly consider my very good friends.
It's a slight over simplification, I admit, but that's a big part of single marque clubs for me.
TonyHetherington said:
The problem I found with single marque clubs (not so much classics, but any) is that you end up with a bunch of guys with whom the only thing you have in common is that you have the same car.
Conversation is therefore limited and I find can get tedious.
However, somewhere like PistonHeads where we all have a common interest; simply, cars - means I've found over the years people with a common interest and (specifically through PH) people who I now truly consider my very good friends.
It's a slight over simplification, I admit, but that's a big part of single marque clubs for me.
I've found exactly the same with bike clubs too.Conversation is therefore limited and I find can get tedious.
However, somewhere like PistonHeads where we all have a common interest; simply, cars - means I've found over the years people with a common interest and (specifically through PH) people who I now truly consider my very good friends.
It's a slight over simplification, I admit, but that's a big part of single marque clubs for me.
I'm a member of the Alfa Romeo Owners Club and on the whole it's a good club, I take the point that you tend to meet people who only have their choice of Car in common, but I actually find that choice of car tends to reflect personality to a certain extent so surprisingly it works.
I think single make car clubs are somewhat threatened by the spread of the internet and forums though, certainly AROC has a serious competitor on the internet with a very vibrant and popular forum called Alfaowner.com it does everything Ben mentioned in his first post and sad to say it does it better generally than AROC itself as it's more 'immediate' and people can meet each other via the net get to know each other then actually meet in person.
Perhaps there is room on the Internet for a sort of classic car come motorsport forum, which gets involved in Rallying, circuits, Hillclimbing etc and also has social meets around the country. I'm sure there is a big enough base of people with a like mind to make that work.
I think single make car clubs are somewhat threatened by the spread of the internet and forums though, certainly AROC has a serious competitor on the internet with a very vibrant and popular forum called Alfaowner.com it does everything Ben mentioned in his first post and sad to say it does it better generally than AROC itself as it's more 'immediate' and people can meet each other via the net get to know each other then actually meet in person.
Perhaps there is room on the Internet for a sort of classic car come motorsport forum, which gets involved in Rallying, circuits, Hillclimbing etc and also has social meets around the country. I'm sure there is a big enough base of people with a like mind to make that work.
velocemitch said:
Perhaps there is room on the Internet for a sort of classic car come motorsport forum, which gets involved in Rallying, circuits, Hillclimbing etc and also has social meets around the country. I'm sure there is a big enough base of people with a like mind to make that work.
That is EXACTLY what I'd be interested in. Any marque, all with a similar outlook.LotusOmega375D said:
I'm staggered how poor the turn-outs are for most single-marque car-club meets that I attend. Often less than 5% of the membership for even major events and most of those are the same people who will always turn up. Likewise on the forums: it's always the same core group who contribute. So what are the other 95% in there for? I can think of only one reason: classic car insurance eligibility.
I am involved with a club and we have found that the larger meets are those that are nearest to where the founder of the club lives. As a result other members further away have set up their own regional meets which have been very successful. This is clearly not a bad thing and from looking at the reports online these are fairly well attended but the National meet is always something of a low turn out even when we tried to ensure it is relatively central/easily accessible.I also agree regarding the comments that a significant number of people only join so that they can ask a million and one questions in order to try and save money on garage bills or obtain parts but don't always put back in what they take out.
you can have both, be a member of a technical and general chat forum, say, er, PistonHeads (have you seen the full list of forums) and be in a multi-marque club, I'm in one it called the Sporting Bears Motor Club
there are also many informal non-club meets, well displays, were anyone could turn up with any vehicle - a lot of people who want to display their cars do tend to be blinker bores, some even want to look down on you as you don't own the model of car they do - which is great fun if you happen to have owned one, two or more of that model previously and are able to point out all the warts
personally I only enjoy driving my car, even when I had cars that were 'fit' to show, very rarely I'll go but it has to involve a good drive there and preferable a decent real ale
as well as SB runs and tours I've done a few PH runs which have been very good because of the mix of cars and people, sometimes the wide supercars hold me up on the twisty bits or narrow roads but sometimes the faster cars (not usually the supercars though funnily enough) have to wait for me to catch up so it evens out
doing charity events will also get you a wide range of people and cars
there are also many informal non-club meets, well displays, were anyone could turn up with any vehicle - a lot of people who want to display their cars do tend to be blinker bores, some even want to look down on you as you don't own the model of car they do - which is great fun if you happen to have owned one, two or more of that model previously and are able to point out all the warts
personally I only enjoy driving my car, even when I had cars that were 'fit' to show, very rarely I'll go but it has to involve a good drive there and preferable a decent real ale
as well as SB runs and tours I've done a few PH runs which have been very good because of the mix of cars and people, sometimes the wide supercars hold me up on the twisty bits or narrow roads but sometimes the faster cars (not usually the supercars though funnily enough) have to wait for me to catch up so it evens out
doing charity events will also get you a wide range of people and cars
Edited by na on Tuesday 14th August 15:59
The problem is that all the cars are the same,and they become very clicky and boring.I was a member of a very big one marque club and a local one.I am now a member of Norwich Classic Vehicle Club with 180 members and lots of differant cars. We have a forum.www.norwichclassicvehicleclub.co.uk if you want to have a look,you may see my MGA in there somewhere.
Single marque clubs. Oh how the fun starts.
I hate the snobbery, where a pristine car that someone has spent a fortune on, is then slated by 'club experts' because some grommet or widget isn't original. The same people then look down their noses at cars that are original but are rather crusty around the edges. The same people that insist that cars at shows must be driven there to compete in the concours only to then let cars (that clearly haven't) compete. The same people who are experts on the marque and know everything, so when something new comes up, it must be wrong. The same people that slate other marques as inferior and slate owners who aren't in the club. The same people who seem to think that cars that aren't in the club do not therefore exist so do not feature on any 'how many left/oldest car/newest car' data. The same people who are nice to other members of the same club then slate them behind their back. The same people who try to sell you shiny newly remanufactured tat on their stand at shows, at inflated prices. The same people who will not look at your car, be it for valuation or general interest because you are not a member of said club. The same people who run a 'closed forum' so you can't engage in any comments, thus perhaps enticing you to join. The same people who aren't particularly happy to see you or your car at their show, but are very happy taking your money.
Perhaps I have had a bad experience?!
I hate the snobbery, where a pristine car that someone has spent a fortune on, is then slated by 'club experts' because some grommet or widget isn't original. The same people then look down their noses at cars that are original but are rather crusty around the edges. The same people that insist that cars at shows must be driven there to compete in the concours only to then let cars (that clearly haven't) compete. The same people who are experts on the marque and know everything, so when something new comes up, it must be wrong. The same people that slate other marques as inferior and slate owners who aren't in the club. The same people who seem to think that cars that aren't in the club do not therefore exist so do not feature on any 'how many left/oldest car/newest car' data. The same people who are nice to other members of the same club then slate them behind their back. The same people who try to sell you shiny newly remanufactured tat on their stand at shows, at inflated prices. The same people who will not look at your car, be it for valuation or general interest because you are not a member of said club. The same people who run a 'closed forum' so you can't engage in any comments, thus perhaps enticing you to join. The same people who aren't particularly happy to see you or your car at their show, but are very happy taking your money.
Perhaps I have had a bad experience?!
alpinemauve said:
Single marque clubs. Oh how the fun starts.
I hate the snobbery, where a pristine car that someone has spent a fortune on, is then slated by 'club experts' because some grommet or widget isn't original. The same people then look down their noses at cars that are original but are rather crusty around the edges. The same people that insist that cars at shows must be driven there to compete in the concours only to then let cars (that clearly haven't) compete. The same people who are experts on the marque and know everything, so when something new comes up, it must be wrong. The same people that slate other marques as inferior and slate owners who aren't in the club. The same people who seem to think that cars that aren't in the club do not therefore exist so do not feature on any 'how many left/oldest car/newest car' data. The same people who are nice to other members of the same club then slate them behind their back. The same people who try to sell you shiny newly remanufactured tat on their stand at shows, at inflated prices. The same people who will not look at your car, be it for valuation or general interest because you are not a member of said club. The same people who run a 'closed forum' so you can't engage in any comments, thus perhaps enticing you to join. The same people who aren't particularly happy to see you or your car at their show, but are very happy taking your money.
Perhaps I have had a bad experience?!
I think you must have been in my (ex) club I hate the snobbery, where a pristine car that someone has spent a fortune on, is then slated by 'club experts' because some grommet or widget isn't original. The same people then look down their noses at cars that are original but are rather crusty around the edges. The same people that insist that cars at shows must be driven there to compete in the concours only to then let cars (that clearly haven't) compete. The same people who are experts on the marque and know everything, so when something new comes up, it must be wrong. The same people that slate other marques as inferior and slate owners who aren't in the club. The same people who seem to think that cars that aren't in the club do not therefore exist so do not feature on any 'how many left/oldest car/newest car' data. The same people who are nice to other members of the same club then slate them behind their back. The same people who try to sell you shiny newly remanufactured tat on their stand at shows, at inflated prices. The same people who will not look at your car, be it for valuation or general interest because you are not a member of said club. The same people who run a 'closed forum' so you can't engage in any comments, thus perhaps enticing you to join. The same people who aren't particularly happy to see you or your car at their show, but are very happy taking your money.
Perhaps I have had a bad experience?!
I'm on 2 Mustang forums where we banter and take the p*ss out of each other while imparting useful opinions. It tends to attract a larger number of owners than most general American car forums which a few years back were very actrive but are now quite dead.
Not enough Mustangs over this side of the country to have a Mustang only club but we have a local Yank car club though inevitably, poor attendance arises due to a wider geographical area. Places like the Ace Cafe tend to attrat people over in London but nowt like that here.
We do have PH runs - have you gone on your regional PH forum?
Not enough Mustangs over this side of the country to have a Mustang only club but we have a local Yank car club though inevitably, poor attendance arises due to a wider geographical area. Places like the Ace Cafe tend to attrat people over in London but nowt like that here.
We do have PH runs - have you gone on your regional PH forum?
LotusOmega375D said:
...and those people who sit shivering by their car on a deckchair all day and reckon they've somehow had the best day-out ever.
Haven't been in the TVR Car Club for years, but about 10 years ago went to some day out in Chelmsford and all the cars parked up together outside some golf club and one driver erected this great big gazeebo over his Tuscan. The colour of it matched his car too.
No, no, no, I don't do single make clubs AT ALL. Boring.
alpinemauve said:
Single marque clubs. Oh how the fun starts.
snip
WOW I am glad to say I have not yet come across a club like that!!snip
It makes me feel better knowing that there is no snobbery on the forum I help run, a person who has a £50 example of a car is just as welcome as someone who has spent £5,000 just on a paint job.
We encourage people to take part, to contribute and post pictures/details of their cars without feeling like they are going to be judged. There are of course negative comments, that is opinion and it is allowed if it not abusive - we can't all like the same things!!!
I was on another forum recently and disagreed with the amount of praise a particular car was getting by stating that the wheels didn't fit right nor the ride height but that I appreciated other elements of the car were well done.
The amount of abuse I received from people telling me to shut up or show them what I can do was nearly enough for me to never want to bother with that forum again! Apparently on that site you are only allowed to be a sheep/ass licker and cannot buck a trend. You are also told if you have nothing positive to STFU which I find astonishing.
benjj said:
alpinemauve said:
Single marque clubs. Oh how the fun starts.
I hate the snobbery, where a pristine car that someone has spent a fortune on, is then slated by 'club experts' because some grommet or widget isn't original. The same people then look down their noses at cars that are original but are rather crusty around the edges. The same people that insist that cars at shows must be driven there to compete in the concours only to then let cars (that clearly haven't) compete. The same people who are experts on the marque and know everything, so when something new comes up, it must be wrong. The same people that slate other marques as inferior and slate owners who aren't in the club. The same people who seem to think that cars that aren't in the club do not therefore exist so do not feature on any 'how many left/oldest car/newest car' data. The same people who are nice to other members of the same club then slate them behind their back. The same people who try to sell you shiny newly remanufactured tat on their stand at shows, at inflated prices. The same people who will not look at your car, be it for valuation or general interest because you are not a member of said club. The same people who run a 'closed forum' so you can't engage in any comments, thus perhaps enticing you to join. The same people who aren't particularly happy to see you or your car at their show, but are very happy taking your money.
Perhaps I have had a bad experience?!
I think you must have been in my (ex) club I hate the snobbery, where a pristine car that someone has spent a fortune on, is then slated by 'club experts' because some grommet or widget isn't original. The same people then look down their noses at cars that are original but are rather crusty around the edges. The same people that insist that cars at shows must be driven there to compete in the concours only to then let cars (that clearly haven't) compete. The same people who are experts on the marque and know everything, so when something new comes up, it must be wrong. The same people that slate other marques as inferior and slate owners who aren't in the club. The same people who seem to think that cars that aren't in the club do not therefore exist so do not feature on any 'how many left/oldest car/newest car' data. The same people who are nice to other members of the same club then slate them behind their back. The same people who try to sell you shiny newly remanufactured tat on their stand at shows, at inflated prices. The same people who will not look at your car, be it for valuation or general interest because you are not a member of said club. The same people who run a 'closed forum' so you can't engage in any comments, thus perhaps enticing you to join. The same people who aren't particularly happy to see you or your car at their show, but are very happy taking your money.
Perhaps I have had a bad experience?!
t factor of single marque clubs. I'm sure there are some good one's out there, but the majority end up being anally-retentive to the exclusion of life outside of their chosen car type/s. HERO & The CRA are good orgs' but miss the 'forum' and regional area gatherings.Personally, I have a group of friends who are interested in all things classic cars of all persuasions, power, value, history, condition. None of us are into cleaning wire wheels with tooth brushes, we just enjoy the fun factor. Meet up for beer & supper when we feel like it and throw in a bit of motorsport for 's
ts & giggles'. We generally find PH is great for forum discussion, sometimes the club forums for technical, everything else we do ourselves.Maybe there's an opportunity for PH to start a club as Ben's describing? Though I feel it would end up like the majority...it would lose sight of the 's
ts & giggles'.Ben, have just re-read your original thread and remember reading a spoof article in the early 1990's that went someting like this...
Have you thought of putting your own Club together with Strict Articles of Association?
1. the Yorkshire Enthusiastic Farts Sporting Car Club [hereafter known as YEFSCC] is a non-membership club for members only.
2. all members, and non-members, may meet or not meet for regular or irregular meetings of a social basis within the confines of the North Yorkshire Moors every fifth Wednesday of the month.
3. the YEFSCC is a non-profit making organisation.
4. any profits that are made are to be retained by the club treasurer for his/her sole pleasure.
5. all member and non-members agree that there shall be no Articles of Association
Have you thought of putting your own Club together with Strict Articles of Association?
1. the Yorkshire Enthusiastic Farts Sporting Car Club [hereafter known as YEFSCC] is a non-membership club for members only.
2. all members, and non-members, may meet or not meet for regular or irregular meetings of a social basis within the confines of the North Yorkshire Moors every fifth Wednesday of the month.
3. the YEFSCC is a non-profit making organisation.
4. any profits that are made are to be retained by the club treasurer for his/her sole pleasure.
5. all member and non-members agree that there shall be no Articles of Association
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