Audi A8 (D2 platform) ownership experiences and thoughts
Discussion
Evening all,
I'm nearly finished a long-awaited house move that will see my commute turn to a 24 mile a day round trip down dual carriageways, and given that I let the missus have the sofa she wanted in the front room, I'm treating myself to first generation/facelift Audi A8.
I am not particularly fussed about which engine I get; the 2.8 would be the most sensible no doubt but I can't see the V8 being much worse on a relatively relaxed drive. My focus is really on finding the best car with the least amount of fuss. I am however, set on full leather seats and the wheels shown on the cars below (does anyone know what they are called?)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2001-Audi-A8-2-8-QUATTRO...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Audi-A8-4-2-quattro-spor...
I've listed two cars above that have caught my eye, the first being just five miles from my mam and dad's house, but the advert is not great. The second car looks like a safer bet, albeit further away.
I would welcome advice from owners and those who have driven them on what to look out for when buying, foibles and joys of ownership etc etc. My brother recently recalled seeing a D2 S8 doing a three point turn just to get out of a normal parking space at the Metro Centre - but given my longtime habit of parking at the back, this shouldn't be a huge issue and it is something a dream car for me, my favourite of all the big German wafters!
I'm nearly finished a long-awaited house move that will see my commute turn to a 24 mile a day round trip down dual carriageways, and given that I let the missus have the sofa she wanted in the front room, I'm treating myself to first generation/facelift Audi A8.
I am not particularly fussed about which engine I get; the 2.8 would be the most sensible no doubt but I can't see the V8 being much worse on a relatively relaxed drive. My focus is really on finding the best car with the least amount of fuss. I am however, set on full leather seats and the wheels shown on the cars below (does anyone know what they are called?)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2001-Audi-A8-2-8-QUATTRO...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Audi-A8-4-2-quattro-spor...
I've listed two cars above that have caught my eye, the first being just five miles from my mam and dad's house, but the advert is not great. The second car looks like a safer bet, albeit further away.
I would welcome advice from owners and those who have driven them on what to look out for when buying, foibles and joys of ownership etc etc. My brother recently recalled seeing a D2 S8 doing a three point turn just to get out of a normal parking space at the Metro Centre - but given my longtime habit of parking at the back, this shouldn't be a huge issue and it is something a dream car for me, my favourite of all the big German wafters!
Loads of '8 owners over at the a8parts forum - probably a buyers guide somewhere there too, although I didn't use one when I bought my 2002 S8!
I believe the 2.8 isn't 4 wheel drive - would need to climb underneath that one to check....it's the only one that's going to be sensible on fuel, however.
The 3.7 is pretty rare and along with the 2.8 is often lightly spec'd as they were the economy choice of the range. Even so you'd struggle to find an A8 in the UK that doesn't have leather, unless it was bought by plod originally.
Not much difference in economy between the 3.7 and 4.2 so given the relative supply the 4.2 would be most people's choice.
The major difference between an A8 Sport 4.2 and an S8 is a few BHP and gearing - the S8s like mine pull silly revs at motorway speeds and only a saint will see numbers beginning with a 2 for mpg, unless it's 2mpg obviously....
The wheels pictured are standard A8 Sport wheels so shouldn't be an issue finding plenty of cars with those fitted.
I'd avoid the 2.8 you linked to - no parking sensors, no headlight washers (so no xenons or bi-xenons), no sat-nav (there's a box on the boot lid for GPS when it has it), no such thing as S-line spec on one of these - just the badge tacked on the back! pimp tints look illegal on the front windows.
Not convinced by the 4.2 either - missing front parking sensors and headlight washers, no nav, it's pre-facelift so ancient dash switches and looks much older inside, something wrong with the front nearside view too - looks to be a poor crash repair as the headlight/bonnet/wing fit looks awful.
Gearboxes can be an issue if they've never had a service (most haven't) and a replacement will cost thousands, so lower miles generally better. Once the box has done over 100k miles perceived wisdom is to leave well alone and keep saving!
Everything should work, if gear selector lights come on all in red during test drive the box has gone into limp mode, which could be a £150 switch or could be a failing box.
This is a known car with many upgrades and common faults rectified:
http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/showthread.php?t=5092
Don't believe it has sold, although can't find the PH ad that's supposed to be here somewhere....
They are huge cars - I avoid multistorey car parks, but then mine's on 20s from the factory and they don't take to kerbs too well
I believe the 2.8 isn't 4 wheel drive - would need to climb underneath that one to check....it's the only one that's going to be sensible on fuel, however.
The 3.7 is pretty rare and along with the 2.8 is often lightly spec'd as they were the economy choice of the range. Even so you'd struggle to find an A8 in the UK that doesn't have leather, unless it was bought by plod originally.
Not much difference in economy between the 3.7 and 4.2 so given the relative supply the 4.2 would be most people's choice.
The major difference between an A8 Sport 4.2 and an S8 is a few BHP and gearing - the S8s like mine pull silly revs at motorway speeds and only a saint will see numbers beginning with a 2 for mpg, unless it's 2mpg obviously....
The wheels pictured are standard A8 Sport wheels so shouldn't be an issue finding plenty of cars with those fitted.
I'd avoid the 2.8 you linked to - no parking sensors, no headlight washers (so no xenons or bi-xenons), no sat-nav (there's a box on the boot lid for GPS when it has it), no such thing as S-line spec on one of these - just the badge tacked on the back! pimp tints look illegal on the front windows.
Not convinced by the 4.2 either - missing front parking sensors and headlight washers, no nav, it's pre-facelift so ancient dash switches and looks much older inside, something wrong with the front nearside view too - looks to be a poor crash repair as the headlight/bonnet/wing fit looks awful.
Gearboxes can be an issue if they've never had a service (most haven't) and a replacement will cost thousands, so lower miles generally better. Once the box has done over 100k miles perceived wisdom is to leave well alone and keep saving!
Everything should work, if gear selector lights come on all in red during test drive the box has gone into limp mode, which could be a £150 switch or could be a failing box.
This is a known car with many upgrades and common faults rectified:
http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/showthread.php?t=5092
Don't believe it has sold, although can't find the PH ad that's supposed to be here somewhere....
They are huge cars - I avoid multistorey car parks, but then mine's on 20s from the factory and they don't take to kerbs too well
Adrian E said:
I believe the 2.8 isn't 4 wheel drive - would need to climb underneath that one to check....it's the only one that's going to be sensible on fuel, however.
That is correct, the 2.8's are FWD. Not that that would bother me a great deal, as it's going to be a cruising car (I've come back to reality, asking myself "how much of my driving is really done down the mythical Lake District B road at 4AM?"). I also have nice hill to contend with to get out of the village where I live and onto the A69, something that sees off many cars in ice and snow! So the comparable BMW 7 series or Mercedes S Class doesn't seem as smart a choice, though a nice E38 will always catch my eye!Spec wise, I am not too fussed about it. Parking sensors would be handy, though by no means something I would require. I never park in multistory carparks and my own private cars are never parked on streets that require parallel parking (my missus would tell you what a stickler I was for having my own drive when we bought a house). Sat Nav is not something I would generally use, given that I tend to use A-Z's when driving somewhere I'm unsure of. As long as it is big, comfortable and relatively pokey I will be happy with it.
The 'half leather' seats I've seen on some A8's seem to be the half leather/alcantara seats from S8's retrofitted to the sister car. They are something I would definitely want to avoid! The thing I liked most about my Audi TT was the seats and how comfy it was to drive. Perhaps a car I should have given more time to! The A8 seats look better than the TT ones too...
With regards to the cars I linked, I made a mistake. The 4.2 in Northumberland is the one not far from my parents' house. The 2.8 in Sheffield is further away. To me though, it looks as though the 2.8 possibly has the worse shutline on the bonnet, though scanning the Ebay adverts it seems many seem to have a bonnet that appears to sit a little high.
With regards to the gearboxes in these, a colleague of mine used to have a 4.2 model and sold his when the gearbox started making funny noises. He later found a specialist garage in Jarrow who would fit a new box with a year's guarantee for £1500 when Audi wanted £5000 for the same job. Fingers crossed I never have to go there, but if I do...
Spec has a strong influence on values - most buyers want as many (working!) toys as possible, so light spec needs to be cheaper to sell
Half alcantara wasn't terribly common - some s8s but probably could be spec'd on a 4.2 Sport as well
Standard nav in an '8 is very old hat now but is better than nothing
That 1 I linked to is reduced to 2750 and I'm sure an offer would get it - much, much nicer car
Half alcantara wasn't terribly common - some s8s but probably could be spec'd on a 4.2 Sport as well
Standard nav in an '8 is very old hat now but is better than nothing
That 1 I linked to is reduced to 2750 and I'm sure an offer would get it - much, much nicer car
2.8's come in either 2 or 4 wheel drive, the one shown is a quattro. It is a sport and therefore has the recaro seats. Non sport models have standard leather seats which although very comfortable don't offer as much side support.
I have a 2.8 fwd and get 25mph in town driving on a run I would expect it to reach 30 mph.
Faults are vey much as with any other car, check bushes,brakes and gearbox. On the 2.8 check oil leaking from rocker gaskets (easy fix) drops on exhaust and plastic breather pipes (£100) from dealer.
I have a 2.8 fwd and get 25mph in town driving on a run I would expect it to reach 30 mph.
Faults are vey much as with any other car, check bushes,brakes and gearbox. On the 2.8 check oil leaking from rocker gaskets (easy fix) drops on exhaust and plastic breather pipes (£100) from dealer.
Adrian, do you know where the car on the A8 parts forum is based? The previous owner was in Harrogate, which isn't too far from Newcastle when travelling to see a car. It's a shame that I'm not looking to buy right now, but I am looking with a keener eye as I'll be finished with the house in a few weeks and ready to sell my Impreza.
The other car I am considering is the B5 S4, ideally the saloon but I could be pushed to take the Avant, I suppose! That also seems like a cracking car, I love V6's and I love turbos so I could plump for one of those...I suppose it would suit my long dual carriageway commute as well as providing a nice toy for when I go to the Lakes or out locally in Northumberland (IMO, the best driving roads in the UK so worth having a car that can make the most of them).
The other car I am considering is the B5 S4, ideally the saloon but I could be pushed to take the Avant, I suppose! That also seems like a cracking car, I love V6's and I love turbos so I could plump for one of those...I suppose it would suit my long dual carriageway commute as well as providing a nice toy for when I go to the Lakes or out locally in Northumberland (IMO, the best driving roads in the UK so worth having a car that can make the most of them).
I've asked the question, so will post when I get a reply (which obviously will also confirm if the car is still available!)
B5 S4 is a very different car - nowhere near as well appointed and much more typical of cars of the era in interior terms. Back seats quite cramped - they do go like the proverbial when tuned, but you have to be prepared to get your hands mucky and keep on top of any issues.
Nice one available here:
http://audisrs.com/about37805.html
but substantially more money....
B5 S4 is a very different car - nowhere near as well appointed and much more typical of cars of the era in interior terms. Back seats quite cramped - they do go like the proverbial when tuned, but you have to be prepared to get your hands mucky and keep on top of any issues.
Nice one available here:
http://audisrs.com/about37805.html
but substantially more money....
We've had our 4.2 Q Sport 12.5 years now. It was a dealer principal car, so well appointed, which we got at 6m/6k miles. Our kids have, quite literally, grown up in it.
Headline points: it has proven itself to be fantastically well built. I have struggled for a long time to work out what I would replace it with (in the end I think it will be a D3 S8 once I find the right one). It has it's drawbacks, but as all rounders go, it would score very, very highly in my book.
Build quality: I was told - perhaps this is an urban myth - that Audi built and sold the D2 A8 at a loss because it was desperate to prove its credentials in that sector of the market. True or not, it is very well put together. Ours has been roundly abused over the years and yet nothing is loose, nothing rattles, and pretty much everything has that elusive Germanic built-from-granite solidity.
Toys: in spades. Make sure they all work. The solar sunroof blows the fans on a hot day, but not the AC - the car will still be v hot. The sat Nav plus (RNS-D) was good in it day, but is old now. No postcode entry, and birdseye maps only. If there is a TV module it will an analogue and therefore redundant post-switch off. If it has a phone handset in the armrest, it will not be hands free (think top exec holding a handset on a curly lead). If you can find one that has the RNS-E retro fitted, and an aftermarket Bluetooth module, you're laughing.
Driving: first thing you will notice (in the 4.2) is that the throttle is feather light. You need a gentle touch to spare your passengers' necks when you pull away. Second thing you'll notice is that the alu chassis, panels and engine makes a big difference when you floor it. For a big car it feels quick. It is quite well balanced too - the size of the car seems to moderate the nose heaviness: it is much less nose heavy than the B6 S4 I had, and better balanced through corners. Drive it with abandon, and it will feel smaller than it is. On the motorway it can jump from 70 to ban plus tabloid story territory *very* quickly.
Running costs: maybe we've been lucky, but ours has been relatively cheap to run. The only big thing was a flooded electronics box due to rainwater drainage issues -Audi picked up a hefty chunk of that cost as a goodwill gesture. We've sent it to an independent for the last few years and I can't think of a single big thing that's come up. The gearbox is a bit of a sword of Damocles, but so far so good on that front. Tyres can get chewed up, and we've warped a set of front discs.
Things to watch out for: besides the gearbox, the alu bits. Bent alu chasses are very hard to mend properly. Dings in panels can be worked out, but creases and folds never disappear (think tinfoil).
Headline points: it has proven itself to be fantastically well built. I have struggled for a long time to work out what I would replace it with (in the end I think it will be a D3 S8 once I find the right one). It has it's drawbacks, but as all rounders go, it would score very, very highly in my book.
Build quality: I was told - perhaps this is an urban myth - that Audi built and sold the D2 A8 at a loss because it was desperate to prove its credentials in that sector of the market. True or not, it is very well put together. Ours has been roundly abused over the years and yet nothing is loose, nothing rattles, and pretty much everything has that elusive Germanic built-from-granite solidity.
Toys: in spades. Make sure they all work. The solar sunroof blows the fans on a hot day, but not the AC - the car will still be v hot. The sat Nav plus (RNS-D) was good in it day, but is old now. No postcode entry, and birdseye maps only. If there is a TV module it will an analogue and therefore redundant post-switch off. If it has a phone handset in the armrest, it will not be hands free (think top exec holding a handset on a curly lead). If you can find one that has the RNS-E retro fitted, and an aftermarket Bluetooth module, you're laughing.
Driving: first thing you will notice (in the 4.2) is that the throttle is feather light. You need a gentle touch to spare your passengers' necks when you pull away. Second thing you'll notice is that the alu chassis, panels and engine makes a big difference when you floor it. For a big car it feels quick. It is quite well balanced too - the size of the car seems to moderate the nose heaviness: it is much less nose heavy than the B6 S4 I had, and better balanced through corners. Drive it with abandon, and it will feel smaller than it is. On the motorway it can jump from 70 to ban plus tabloid story territory *very* quickly.
Running costs: maybe we've been lucky, but ours has been relatively cheap to run. The only big thing was a flooded electronics box due to rainwater drainage issues -Audi picked up a hefty chunk of that cost as a goodwill gesture. We've sent it to an independent for the last few years and I can't think of a single big thing that's come up. The gearbox is a bit of a sword of Damocles, but so far so good on that front. Tyres can get chewed up, and we've warped a set of front discs.
Things to watch out for: besides the gearbox, the alu bits. Bent alu chasses are very hard to mend properly. Dings in panels can be worked out, but creases and folds never disappear (think tinfoil).
Thanks for getting in touch. That is a pretty nice assessment of the A8. I am in two minds over whether to go for the D2 A8 or the B5 S4. On one hand, the A8 would be a lovely motorway cruiser and I expect I'd see about the same mpg return out of both cars.
On the other hand, I'm expected to keep my driving sharp for work, particularly my bend assessment on country roads, so the smaller S4 could come in handy for getting practice out of work hours!
Adrian, I had been looking at the advert for that S4 on PH before you linked me, it looks like a stunning car! Shame it's the other end of the country. You seem clued in to the decent cars for sale at the moment!
On the other hand, I'm expected to keep my driving sharp for work, particularly my bend assessment on country roads, so the smaller S4 could come in handy for getting practice out of work hours!
Adrian, I had been looking at the advert for that S4 on PH before you linked me, it looks like a stunning car! Shame it's the other end of the country. You seem clued in to the decent cars for sale at the moment!
The S4 sold via an owners club forum over the weekend 
Haven't heard back from the person with the A8, so either they're not getting notifications of PMs or it has also gone.....they haven't been on the forum for a while so may just be on hols?
My S8 has retrofit RNS-E and bluetooth and it's a real bonus - makes the car feel so much more modern. Rare to find in an '8, but even rarer in an S4 I suspect. Some have RNS-E fitted but most don't have the phone module.
Haven't heard back from the person with the A8, so either they're not getting notifications of PMs or it has also gone.....they haven't been on the forum for a while so may just be on hols?
My S8 has retrofit RNS-E and bluetooth and it's a real bonus - makes the car feel so much more modern. Rare to find in an '8, but even rarer in an S4 I suspect. Some have RNS-E fitted but most don't have the phone module.
Apologies to crash in on Baryonyx's thread, but...
I'm also considering an A8. Almost certainly a 2.8 quattro. The biggest concern to me is the gearbox issue.
A couple of people in this thread have mentioned gearbox servicing: do you mean regular oil changes that help to avoid the problems, or do you mean waiting til it borks and them spending a fortune on a strip down and rebuild?
I'm also considering an A8. Almost certainly a 2.8 quattro. The biggest concern to me is the gearbox issue.
A couple of people in this thread have mentioned gearbox servicing: do you mean regular oil changes that help to avoid the problems, or do you mean waiting til it borks and them spending a fortune on a strip down and rebuild?
No, no, the more the merrier!
Opinion seems divided on the gearbox. I believe it was marketed as a 'sealed for life' unit, but consensus seems to be that it benefits from an oil and filter change on a regular schedule, some saying every 40,000 miles, some saying more often than that!
The critical aspect seems to be getting the filter changed with the oil, and some recommend cleaning the metallic swarf out, which sticks to a magnet. That said, some of the gearboxes have never been opened before and work fine. Anecdotally, some have fixed a whining gearbox (apparently the first sign it is on the way out) with an oil and filter change and had never had any more trouble!
My friend was quoted £5000 by Audi to have his fixed with a year's guarantee, or £1500 from a local specialist with the game guarantee. Pricey, but not really much more than getting the fuel tank changed on a contemporary E38 7 Series!
Opinion seems divided on the gearbox. I believe it was marketed as a 'sealed for life' unit, but consensus seems to be that it benefits from an oil and filter change on a regular schedule, some saying every 40,000 miles, some saying more often than that!
The critical aspect seems to be getting the filter changed with the oil, and some recommend cleaning the metallic swarf out, which sticks to a magnet. That said, some of the gearboxes have never been opened before and work fine. Anecdotally, some have fixed a whining gearbox (apparently the first sign it is on the way out) with an oil and filter change and had never had any more trouble!
My friend was quoted £5000 by Audi to have his fixed with a year's guarantee, or £1500 from a local specialist with the game guarantee. Pricey, but not really much more than getting the fuel tank changed on a contemporary E38 7 Series!
The boxes get hot with quattro - the same box in a BMW etc gets both a recommended oil and filter change interval and the option to offload any excess of grunt via spinning the rear wheels! In the Audi it just gets the torque converter etc nice and hot and damages the oil.....
I changed my oil and filter as a precaution at about 40k miles last year (2002 car) and aside from smoother/quicker shifts there's no noticeable difference, but my box was working fine before. I will do another fluid and filter change 2 years after the first to remove the rest of the old fluid (if you only drain the fluid and remove the filter it doesn't empty the torque converter fully) and will then do it every 5 years or so as the mileage won't ramp up much now.
With cars that've done over 100k miles then the damage has probably already been done, if it's going to be! It may go on for many more thousand miles but the risk in changing it is that you might make it start to play up. It's the potential risk you take. The box is a standard ZF product and auto box specialists should have no issues finding and fixing any damaged parts. The exchange box option is extremely expensive compared to the value of the car, but no worse than other manufacturers
I changed my oil and filter as a precaution at about 40k miles last year (2002 car) and aside from smoother/quicker shifts there's no noticeable difference, but my box was working fine before. I will do another fluid and filter change 2 years after the first to remove the rest of the old fluid (if you only drain the fluid and remove the filter it doesn't empty the torque converter fully) and will then do it every 5 years or so as the mileage won't ramp up much now.
With cars that've done over 100k miles then the damage has probably already been done, if it's going to be! It may go on for many more thousand miles but the risk in changing it is that you might make it start to play up. It's the potential risk you take. The box is a standard ZF product and auto box specialists should have no issues finding and fixing any damaged parts. The exchange box option is extremely expensive compared to the value of the car, but no worse than other manufacturers
The V8s definitely (4.2 non-turbo) - the RS6 can be like driving around holding a grenade with the pin out when it comes to gearboxes, or they can be perfect - just luck of the draw!
We also have a 3.0 V6 petrol A6 and changed the oil and filter in that after doing the S8 - A6 was on about 50k miles when done. Didn't make any difference at all, which in a way was a shame as there's noticeable lag when moving from D to R or back and based on the S8 experience I thought it would improve that On the upside it hasn't gone bang either.....
I'd defo say to anyone buying an Audi quattro tip at any age that history of gearbox oil changes is a major plus
We also have a 3.0 V6 petrol A6 and changed the oil and filter in that after doing the S8 - A6 was on about 50k miles when done. Didn't make any difference at all, which in a way was a shame as there's noticeable lag when moving from D to R or back and based on the S8 experience I thought it would improve that
On the upside it hasn't gone bang either.....I'd defo say to anyone buying an Audi quattro tip at any age that history of gearbox oil changes is a major plus
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