Dartford Crossing. Fit for purpose?
Discussion
I had a simple trip today. TN6 - RM11. 44 miles each way with most of that on either dual carriageway or motorway.
All was going well till I hit the M25. At the Orpington turn off traffic was slowing, grinding to a halt just before the M20 junction. What then followed was a one hour journey to get to the Dartford Toll booth. Crossing the river was a breeze and on the other side traffic flowed freely.
Popped into Hornchurch for a quick wedding suit measure, and back on the M25. Low and behold the road was static again from just after the A127. The 7 mile till tolls sign is ahead of me, and I am still sat in 4 lanes of traffic, rolling a few yards at time for another hour.
Once through the tolls again the motorway runs clear and we can maintain a sensible speed.
At what point do the Tolls become such a burden that they can be deemed unfit for purpose, and removed.
Maybe if we paid the money we recieved back to Le Tunnel, (less profits already recieved) we could bring the road back into public ownership.
Whatever the cost we pay to travel over the Thames the time lost os far greater, and, whilst not a greeny, even I know that thousands of cars and lorries on tickover for two hours at a time is not great for anyone apart from BP etc..
I have asked myself the very same question countless times. What infuriates me even more is that despite queuing all that time they still charge you. How about rocking up at the toll booth and demanding an hours labour minus the £2 toll charge .
There was mention of the tolls being waived if the queues got too long but I have never seen it happen or heard of it happening.
It used to be every now and then like on a bank holiday but nowadays it's constant and disgusting.
And to be constructive in my criticism why cannot they get rid of the booths and install a system like the London congestion charging scheme. Noone has to stop entering or exiting that do they ? Then everyone could file through at 50mph - job done and common sense applied.
There was mention of the tolls being waived if the queues got too long but I have never seen it happen or heard of it happening.
It used to be every now and then like on a bank holiday but nowadays it's constant and disgusting.
And to be constructive in my criticism why cannot they get rid of the booths and install a system like the London congestion charging scheme. Noone has to stop entering or exiting that do they ? Then everyone could file through at 50mph - job done and common sense applied.
Edited by Far Cough on Monday 20th August 18:08
Back in 2005, Stephen Ladyman, Transport Minister stated:
"One of the purposes of tolling is that cars are effectively metered as they cross the bridge so it does not exceed its design capacity - it's a safety thing and that's perfectly legal," he said.
Yes, of course, except that the tolls are AFTER the bridge which means that congestion backs traffic onto the bridge rather than metering across it. Therefore, during busy times the tolls should be opened in case the bridge exceeds its design capacity? What a cock...
Sorry, I just had to share that again...
"One of the purposes of tolling is that cars are effectively metered as they cross the bridge so it does not exceed its design capacity - it's a safety thing and that's perfectly legal," he said.
Yes, of course, except that the tolls are AFTER the bridge which means that congestion backs traffic onto the bridge rather than metering across it. Therefore, during busy times the tolls should be opened in case the bridge exceeds its design capacity? What a cock...
Sorry, I just had to share that again...
williamp said:
the tolls were waived during the olympics...
Not when I drove through during Olympics fortnight they weren't. The queues were no worse than I've seen many times before but equally, I've been able to drive right up to the toll booths without having to queue at all, and in the daytime too.Far Cough said:
There was mention of the tolls being waived if the queues got too long but I have never seen it happen or heard of it happening.
And to be constructive in my criticism why cannot they get rid of the booths and install a system like the London congestion charging scheme. Noone has to stop entering or exiting that do they ?
They did waive the tolls a couple of times during the Olympics (surprise surprise) but it's a very rare event otherwiseAnd to be constructive in my criticism why cannot they get rid of the booths and install a system like the London congestion charging scheme. Noone has to stop entering or exiting that do they ?
Edited by Far Cough on Monday 20th August 18:08
As for losing the booths, it's a great idea. I occasionally do some work in Southern Ireland, and some of their motorways are tolled - they use a transponder (the same type as on the Dartford crossing) and the barriers have a reader about 100 yards before, which allow you to go through at about 50kph
vescaegg said:
Always always go a different way than direct at the crossing. Going up the m20, then a228, then through Greenhithe brings you out at the toll booths with no queue at all. That's when it's even backed up to junction 3-4.
Did this last week and saved myself a nice 2 hours
This works most of the time, but trust me after having been stuck in it in the past (working at Crossways, the business park next to the bridge) getting from Greenhithe to the tunnel can at times take well over a hour.Did this last week and saved myself a nice 2 hours
steveo3002 said:
traffic jams reel in lots of taxes from wasted fuel ...so i doubt anything will be done about it
This. Nail on head. And all the extra revenue raised from all the minor shunts, wear and tear on tyres and brakes, and breakdown call outs. Why on earth would the grubberment do anything to alleviate the jams when there's such good money to be made
Maybe one of the green lobbyists needs to step up on this.
It seems that unless the jam is over 8 miles it is not considered a problem, and the accepted time to get through the tolls is over an hour.
Ladymans response just shows how out of touch some of our MP's really are.
Together with the promise to the nation it would stop being a toll road once the construction was paid for there must be a way to get this discussed in Parliament, or the High Court.
The biggest issue is that effects so many people so little. If it was a single business being inconvenienced by millions of pounds lobbyists would be at work, but as it is the populace all paying a small amount, all losing a few hours here or there it seems to be ignored.
It seems that unless the jam is over 8 miles it is not considered a problem, and the accepted time to get through the tolls is over an hour.
Ladymans response just shows how out of touch some of our MP's really are.
Together with the promise to the nation it would stop being a toll road once the construction was paid for there must be a way to get this discussed in Parliament, or the High Court.
The biggest issue is that effects so many people so little. If it was a single business being inconvenienced by millions of pounds lobbyists would be at work, but as it is the populace all paying a small amount, all losing a few hours here or there it seems to be ignored.
I remember loads of various interviews on TV over the crossing. One that stuck in my mind was that it would be a disaster for the enviroment if the tolls were removed. Apparently the tolls -
Manage traffic
Reduce congestion
Save enviromental damage
Remember 2 jags and transport 2000? Well Mr 2 Jags, we've paid our tolls, where's all the new roads and crossings?
You see the politicians always quote some misguided ilinformed Uni study that's shows if the toll was removed, traffic using the crossing would increase a billion fold (because the country is full of people dying to use the crossing but despite being able to afford to run a car they can't afford the £2 to use the crossing, apparently). This is what ladyman used when he changed it from a toll to a congestion charge........
Oh and no, it's not owned by anyone but us - several times over by now. It's just the French company that have the contract for the booths I believe.
Manage traffic
Reduce congestion
Save enviromental damage
Remember 2 jags and transport 2000? Well Mr 2 Jags, we've paid our tolls, where's all the new roads and crossings?
You see the politicians always quote some misguided ilinformed Uni study that's shows if the toll was removed, traffic using the crossing would increase a billion fold (because the country is full of people dying to use the crossing but despite being able to afford to run a car they can't afford the £2 to use the crossing, apparently). This is what ladyman used when he changed it from a toll to a congestion charge........
Oh and no, it's not owned by anyone but us - several times over by now. It's just the French company that have the contract for the booths I believe.
Edited by Gixer on Tuesday 21st August 09:54
When Im working down south of the river I tend to use the crossing in the morning and then cut up the A20, through Blackwall tunnel and then on to the A12/M11. Always flows much more freely and you get to see the olympic stadium!
The prices are going up in September IIRC which is also going to spark a huge furore on here soon!
The prices are going up in September IIRC which is also going to spark a huge furore on here soon!
Viper_Larry said:
Back in 2005, Stephen Ladyman, Transport Minister stated:
"One of the purposes of tolling is that cars are effectively metered as they cross the bridge so it does not exceed its design capacity - it's a safety thing and that's perfectly legal," he said.
Yes, of course, except that the tolls are AFTER the bridge which means that congestion backs traffic onto the bridge rather than metering across it. Therefore, during busy times the tolls should be opened in case the bridge exceeds its design capacity? What a cock...
Sorry, I just had to share that again...
"One of the purposes of tolling is that cars are effectively metered as they cross the bridge so it does not exceed its design capacity - it's a safety thing and that's perfectly legal," he said.
Yes, of course, except that the tolls are AFTER the bridge which means that congestion backs traffic onto the bridge rather than metering across it. Therefore, during busy times the tolls should be opened in case the bridge exceeds its design capacity? What a cock...
Sorry, I just had to share that again...
Politicians......... got to love them.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff