Annoying brake problem on 1600M

[Cerberus90]

We've just fitted some brand new calipers and pads to the 1600M after finding the old ones were leaking a bit.

Now, we've got a clacking brake pad on the passenger caliper. The inner pad can move .5mm to and from the disc (the piston is right back), and can freely move up and down in the caliper, causing the clacking when it is caught by the disc, or a bump in the road jolts it.
The other pad (outer), is tighter, and doesn't move much at all, much more how you'd expect the pad to sit.

The discs are still pretty much as new, as said, new calipers, new pads (small oval holes) with the smaller diam pins to hold them in. It only seems to occur on the passenger caliper.

Is it just a case of get some different pads and hope that they're a tad longer to sit in the caliper better?

We've bled the system quite a bit, put quite a bit of fluid through.


So, any tips/tricks for bleeding the system? Any ideas on how or if we can get the inner piston to come out more to hold the pad in the right place as I can imagine it would give a bit of a spongy pedal (I don't drive it, Dad does and he's rubbish with spongy pedals ).
Mainly want to get rid of the clacking as its very annoying.

• UPDATE*

So, it seems it was actually the outer pad that was tight that was causing the clacking, as the disc spins, it catches at a point each time (obviously due to not 100% true discs), and caused the pad to jump. Removing the anti-squeal shims seems to have given the pad just enough room to not be caught by the disc, until very light braking is applied, then it catches and clacks again.

Edited by Cerberus90 on Tuesday 21st August 17:18

[bluezeeland]

Hi,

First of all, i bleed by mitivac, which is as simple as it is effective

Are you sure the calipers and pads are compatible ? Asking cos there are triumph calipers in metric and imperial and 2 types (16P and 16PB)

However as you stated its one side only, guessing some dirt or grime (or packing material when send) has come into the oil-way to the outer claw preventing fluid getting there and inoperation of the piston

To overcome this the whole caliper should be dismantled (which is 'fun' and you wanted to avoid in the first place !)

Please keep us updated

[Cerberus90]

The pistons move, both of them move and grab the disc and will stop the car.


The calipers are neither 16P or PB, as they are the new re-manufactured ones, but they are similar to the 16PB ones in that they require the shanked bolts, and I believe have 10mm pipe unions.

Whether it's because they are re-manufactured that's causing the pads to be slightly loose, as they have been cast ever so slightly bigger? Although then I'd expect it on both sides, have to check the drivers side one.

The pads are standard pads, with the correct holes for the retaining pins.


Removing the anti-squeal shim seems to have fixed it, when just spinning the wheel by hand. Have to wait for a road test to see if it really has worked.



Does that mityvac work by pumping the fluid from the caliper up to the master cylinder, or t'other way round?? I'm guessing caliper up to master cylinder from the pics.

[phillpot]

Cerberus90 said:

Does that mityvac work by pumping the fluid from the caliper up to the master cylinder

I'm guessing by the name Mityvac it pulls the fluid through by vacumm?



Have you swapped pads around to see if bad pad or loose caliper?

Edited by phillpot on Tuesday 21st August 21:27

[bluezeeland]

Yup, vacuum action it is, you put a hose (and little adapting thingy) onto the bleed nipple and pull out the fluid under vacuum (and supply to the reservoir as needed, obviously)
(and hence saving your dad' leg from fatigue, lol)
The mitivac can also be used to test/free the blocked caliper(stll think thats the problem), by applying pressure/suction to the feed

[Cerberus90]

bluezeeland said:

Yup, vacuum action it is, you put a hose (and little adapting thingy) onto the bleed nipple and pull out the fluid under vacuum (and supply to the reservoir as needed, obviously)
(and hence saving your dad' leg from fatigue, lol)
The mitivac can also be used to test/free the blocked caliper(stll think thats the problem), by applying pressure/suction to the feed

, I'm the one who sits there going "On......Off........On.......Off",


How should the pads sit in the caliper? Should they be tight against the disc, just enough to be touching slightly, but not cause a lot of resistance, or should they be loose, not touching the disc at all?

It has just passed it's MOT with these calipers and pads, so there's no lack of braking.

Would something in the caliper cause the piston to go too far back after being applied?


Might see about getting one of those mityvacs then, the two bleeding solutions we've currently got are rather cheap ones. One is about 30 years old and is degrading, the other has a very very strong one way valve in it, which we think stops it working at 100%.

[bluezeeland]

Here's a site which explains all;

http://www.buckeyetriumphs.org/technical/Brakes/Fr...

[Cerberus90]

bluezeeland said:

Here's a site which explains all;

http://www.buckeyetriumphs.org/technical/Brakes/Fr...

Read it all and bookmarked it about a month ago,

[davegt6]

Have you checked the run outon your disc? If the pad is moving back from the disc this is a likely cause.

[Cerberus90]

Update!

We took it for a run as it was a nice day yesterday, the brakes no longer 'clacked' in time with the revolution of the wheel, but as soon as we went over any sort of bump, they 'clacked', which when driving slowly is not only annoying, but also a bit embarrassing, when the car sounds like it's all loose and wobbly,

So we came back, and we took the pads out, we then put some EBC greenstuff pads in, which we had been using previously before changing the calipers. These pads fitted much better, and there is now no clacking when going over bumps.

So, the pads which clacked, were some OE AP Lockheed pads, which had the small holes for the small pins, which is what the new calipers use.
The greenstuff pads, are ones which use the larger pin, and so have a larger hole in the pad, these are also the earlier type of pad, with slightly less surface area of pad material.

We also tried a set of Mintex MGB633 (standard) pads we had, these were originally small pin holes, but we had drilled out one set to accommodate larger pins, but these also clacked when just sat in the caliper and wobbled.


Now, what may be helping the greenstuff pads to stay put, is that they have a stick on pad as the anti-squeal shim, rather than just the metal shims. These pads, make the brake pad slightly thicker, and hold it tighter in the caliper between piston and disc, and also possibly, the piston beds into the pad and holds it in the up/down orientation more than a metal shim would (which is not at all really).

So that's that problem apparently solved, although unfortunately, we now seem to have developed a slight leak on the radiator (which is less than a year old having been re-cored with an extra core added and fancy fin pattern ).

But then there's also still the petrol gauge which doesn't read correctly, due to the sender unit not reading the tank properly, and the 'engine smell' we get in the cabin, and the fact that when started from cold the fourth plug doesn't fire until the engine has warmed up a bit so it sounds like a tractor, . So plenty of other stuff to do,

[Adrian@]

Are you using an anti-rattle kit (the spring spreader type) along with the sqeal shims?
Adrian@

[Cerberus90]

We were originally using some anti-squeal shims, between pad and piston, and that was it.


Obviously, the greenstuff pads have there own so the shims aren't needed.


I'm guessing these are the anti-rattle springs?
What do they actually do? I'm having trouble visualising how they'll fit and work.

Edited by Cerberus90 on Tuesday 4th September 19:59

Edited by Cerberus90 on Tuesday 4th September 20:01

[Adrian@]

My anti-rattle kit has a anti-rattle spreader spring AND shims...IMHO both are required
Adrian@

[bluezeeland]

At least the pads issue is solved !

rad; shouldn't you go to the recore guy and give him a piece of your mind (you probably paid him good money)

firing; usual suspects, plugs, leads ?

'engine' smell; checked all fuel lines/tank/carb ?

1600M is taking some time from the taimar isn't it ? (probably envious..)

on a side note: @Adrian: seen my pm?

[Cerberus90]

bluezeeland said:

At least the pads issue is solved !

rad; shouldn't you go to the recore guy and give him a piece of your mind (you probably paid him good money)

Could do, but I think he's bigger than us,

bluezeeland said:

firing; usual suspects, plugs, leads ?

Changed the plug once, and it was ok for the first one or two starts, and then it started not firing till warm again. It runs great when it's warmed up, running 120bhp, and 125 ib/ft torque @ fly.

bluezeeland said:

'engine' smell; checked all fuel lines/tank/carb ?

We're running twin 40s on it, so this is probably where the problem arises from. We've got rid of the standard breathing system, and we're just venting to atmosphere, with a filter on the oil filler cap, and a pipe from the crankcase breather, down to the floor.
The petrol tank doesn't seem to be leaking, and it looks ok. The smell is worst when you've just opened a window. With windows all shut, it's not quite as bad, then you open one, and you get a good whiff of it, then it goes back to not too strong again.

bluezeeland said:

1600M is taking some time from the taimar isn't it ? (probably envious..)

Not taking that much time, and the Taimars still got plenty of stuff to do. The body is still being repaired at the moment, and due to space, we can't really start assembling a rolling chassis. Pretty much all the bits have been cleaned, de-rusted, and painted. We've got new bushes in everything. So most of it is just ready to bolt on. The only thing not even started yet is the engine, although we've got a pair of big valve heads for it,