Bmw m3 e46 Cab Vs Honda S2000
Discussion
Hi
A little dilemma, My GF currently uses or Mini cooper S as the daily driver and i feel it is time for a change, had my fun out the Mini. We both miss top down driving after Changing the Tvr Chimaera for a Cerbera. The only thing she will change the Mini for is a Convertible. So I have Narrowed it down to the 2 cars above in our budget.
So the problem is which one to go for?? What is best to live with as a daily driver and has the best fun factor and running costs?
I am just about to buy myself a winter 4x4 shed so space is not a major factor and MPG does not really come in to it as we do small mileage a year.
A little dilemma, My GF currently uses or Mini cooper S as the daily driver and i feel it is time for a change, had my fun out the Mini. We both miss top down driving after Changing the Tvr Chimaera for a Cerbera. The only thing she will change the Mini for is a Convertible. So I have Narrowed it down to the 2 cars above in our budget.
So the problem is which one to go for?? What is best to live with as a daily driver and has the best fun factor and running costs?
I am just about to buy myself a winter 4x4 shed so space is not a major factor and MPG does not really come in to it as we do small mileage a year.
I'd rate the M3 as able to compete with 2-seaters for a purely 'fun' experience. But the Honda S2000 seems a very divisive car. Some people love revving the nuts off it, some people don't. Some people don't mind the 'numb' steering and twitchy handling on the limit, some people spend loads of money and time making sure the suspension geometry is minutely adjusted in the correct fashion. I suspect the predictable M3 may be more fun, and more use, more of the time.
Personal preference, I'd say.
To my mind, both are decent but not exceptional driver's cars, but the M3 is never going to feel as nimble as a dedicated 2-seater sports car weighing 400kg less. Both have impressive engines and both need to be worked fairly hard to really make them fly, although obviously the M3 is much more powerful and significantly faster in a straight line. The M3 has more in the way of electronic safety nets, if that matters.
To my mind, both are decent but not exceptional driver's cars, but the M3 is never going to feel as nimble as a dedicated 2-seater sports car weighing 400kg less. Both have impressive engines and both need to be worked fairly hard to really make them fly, although obviously the M3 is much more powerful and significantly faster in a straight line. The M3 has more in the way of electronic safety nets, if that matters.
I have an early s2000.
It's great for special occasions and summer evening blasts, it's a car to wind up to the vtec and it's a massive grin on those occasions.
However I personally wouldn't use it as my daily. The car can be and often are used as one, they're fairly tough reliable cars (but not bulletproof as same suggest), but refined / comfortable / relaxing it isn't - as a daily it'd do my head in and stop feeling special.
Cheers
Pete
It's great for special occasions and summer evening blasts, it's a car to wind up to the vtec and it's a massive grin on those occasions.
However I personally wouldn't use it as my daily. The car can be and often are used as one, they're fairly tough reliable cars (but not bulletproof as same suggest), but refined / comfortable / relaxing it isn't - as a daily it'd do my head in and stop feeling special.
Cheers
Pete
supersarbs said:
I have an early s2000.
It's great for special occasions and summer evening blasts, it's a car to wind up to the vtec and it's a massive grin on those occasions.
However I personally wouldn't use it as my daily. The car can be and often are used as one, they're fairly tough reliable cars (but not bulletproof as same suggest), but refined / comfortable / relaxing it isn't - as a daily it'd do my head in and stop feeling special.
Cheers
Pete
I'll second all of this, apart from the reliability comment. I'd say it's the closest you'll get to bullet proof in a proper sports car. It's very cheap to run compared to the BMW and boxsters mentioned and will give you 90% the thrills.It's great for special occasions and summer evening blasts, it's a car to wind up to the vtec and it's a massive grin on those occasions.
However I personally wouldn't use it as my daily. The car can be and often are used as one, they're fairly tough reliable cars (but not bulletproof as same suggest), but refined / comfortable / relaxing it isn't - as a daily it'd do my head in and stop feeling special.
Cheers
Pete
My s2000 is a 2005 model so it looks very fresh still (standard pre-facelift looking old), e46 starting to look old as its a couple gens back now. Boxster depends, if it's a 986 I'd avoid as again it's a couple gens old and is really starting to age (awful interior) , 987 boxster is on the same page as a newer s2000.
As for numb steering comments, it depends what you are used to. Come from an Elise and yea it feels numb, come from a mondeo and it'll feel great.
For geo comments you'll hear constantly, Drive a couple. There are issues with bolts seizing making future adjustments expensive, however if the car rides nicely and it's going to be a run around for your missus then it will be just fine. You'll find a few people on a forum can make a huge impact, it's a known problem for sure but in most cases it won't affect you unless you want to start modifying. Don't forget the other 95% of owners who don't use forums who don't have issues with their cars.
We ran a r53 cooper s alongside the s2000 for a while, they were both very similar on fuel. The mini wasn't much more practical either because of the crap boot. Both need a lot of rev, but the s2000 is in a different league with revs - if you want to really move on with things you DO have to take her round to 8.5k in each gear, but this is the fun part because of the noise and the great gearbox. You'll also see people banging on about torque, its like any normal 2.0-2.5 petrol engine with the added benefit of revving round to 9k for extra power, so it's really not that hard around town etc.
scotty_d said:
How strong is the boxters 3.2 lump keep hearing horror stories about them. I know i should not believe everything i hear on here being in to TVR's but i still need a reliable car for daily use.
I'd be interested by this too. I keep reading about RMS and IMS failures. How common is this?C
russy01 said:
I'll second all of this, apart from the reliability comment. I'd say it's the closest you'll get to bullet proof in a proper sports car. It's very cheap to run compared to the BMW and boxsters mentioned and will give you 90% the thrills.
My s2000 is a 2005 model so it looks very fresh still (standard pre-facelift looking old), e46 starting to look old as its a couple gens back now. Boxster depends, if it's a 986 I'd avoid as again it's a couple gens old and is really starting to age (awful interior) , 987 boxster is on the same page as a newer s2000.
As for numb steering comments, it depends what you are used to. Come from an Elise and yea it feels numb, come from a mondeo and it'll feel great.
For geo comments you'll hear constantly, Drive a couple. There are issues with bolts seizing making future adjustments expensive, however if the car rides nicely and it's going to be a run around for your missus then it will be just fine. You'll find a few people on a forum can make a huge impact, it's a known problem for sure but in most cases it won't affect you unless you want to start modifying. Don't forget the other 95% of owners who don't use forums who don't have issues with their cars.
We ran a r53 cooper s alongside the s2000 for a while, they were both very similar on fuel. The mini wasn't much more practical either because of the crap boot. Both need a lot of rev, but the s2000 is in a different league with revs - if you want to really move on with things you DO have to take her round to 8.5k in each gear, but this is the fun part because of the noise and the great gearbox. You'll also see people banging on about torque, its like any normal 2.0-2.5 petrol engine with the added benefit of revving round to 9k for extra power, so it's really not that hard around town etc.
Thank you russy very informative and useful. We test drove a 2009 Civic Type R a few months ago but she did not like it. ( I did ) I did not feel to be lacking torque at all as some say the V-tecs do???? Well next to me Cerbera yes, But next to mini it felt more lively and she found it hard not to press it on. My s2000 is a 2005 model so it looks very fresh still (standard pre-facelift looking old), e46 starting to look old as its a couple gens back now. Boxster depends, if it's a 986 I'd avoid as again it's a couple gens old and is really starting to age (awful interior) , 987 boxster is on the same page as a newer s2000.
As for numb steering comments, it depends what you are used to. Come from an Elise and yea it feels numb, come from a mondeo and it'll feel great.
For geo comments you'll hear constantly, Drive a couple. There are issues with bolts seizing making future adjustments expensive, however if the car rides nicely and it's going to be a run around for your missus then it will be just fine. You'll find a few people on a forum can make a huge impact, it's a known problem for sure but in most cases it won't affect you unless you want to start modifying. Don't forget the other 95% of owners who don't use forums who don't have issues with their cars.
We ran a r53 cooper s alongside the s2000 for a while, they were both very similar on fuel. The mini wasn't much more practical either because of the crap boot. Both need a lot of rev, but the s2000 is in a different league with revs - if you want to really move on with things you DO have to take her round to 8.5k in each gear, but this is the fun part because of the noise and the great gearbox. You'll also see people banging on about torque, its like any normal 2.0-2.5 petrol engine with the added benefit of revving round to 9k for extra power, so it's really not that hard around town etc.
I think the S2k is winning. Not sure why it could not be used daily is the only thing putting me off? I know i could not live with My TVR daily as it is really hard work with long doors hard to get in and out , Crap turning circle , Shunty lumpy V8 around town, Roasting hot in traffic and with no Aids makes it a hard drive if not in the mood for it.
Do S2K's have any aids as standard. ( For her benifit being her first RWD car)
russy01 said:
I'll second all of this, apart from the reliability comment. I'd say it's the closest you'll get to bullet proof in a proper sports car. It's very cheap to run compared to the BMW and boxsters mentioned and will give you 90% the thrills..
Just to explain my previous comment, there's a world of difference between a good s2000 and a poor one. Some cars use a fair bit of oil between services and unless it's topped up, engines can fail. Sometimes failing quite a long time after the engine ran low (= nasty surprise for the next owner). Similarly people do have problems with diffs and gearboxes. Owners need to remember the car has a fairly stressed, high revving 2 litre engine producing the best part of 120 bhp/litre and look after the engine levels accordingly. If you do, you'll get the reliability and cheap running costs that Russy mentions. An owner who opens the bonnet once a year or waits for services may have problems.
OP, if you go for one of these, my recommendation FWIW is to investigate known issues on the (excellent) s2k site, be picky, buy an enthusiast's car and look after it, then you'll have few problems.
To answer your other question, there are no traction aids until the later (I think 2007+) cars which had vsc fitted. These units get mixed comments from people, and being 2006+ owners get bent over when it comes to road tax.
I've had no real problems with my car getting out of shape, although earlier cars like mine have fairly twitchy handling and are sensitive to camber changes and bumps in the road. Treat with respect and drive with concentration (especially in the wet) your GF should be fine.
Cheers
Pete
scotty_d said:
Not sure why it could not be used daily is the only thing putting me off?
Loads of people do use them as dailies and rack up big mileages, the cars can do . If you are willing to put up with the raw nature of the car, the noise and the fact you have to concentrate every time you drive it, it should be no problem. I can't but then Im getting old 
cheers
Pete
This might help you out OP. I was replying to a guy looking for help on what to buy. I have driven E46 M3's but not in anger so I can't comment. However, you will see in the post that I had no issue keeping up with my friends in there much more expensive metal, so maybe that gives you an idea of the S2000's potential.
NateWM said:
I had the pleasure of using an S2000 for a week, so will try and give as much information as I can.
The model I was driving was a silver pre-facelift with the 247hp 2.0 F20C engine. The Engine is a real work of art. It's nice and dosile when below 4k, as well as frugal (40mpg can be had on a run). Take it up into the revs however, and VTEC comes into play. This one sounded immense, especially with an induction kit. I never had any issues with lack of torque really. Sometimes the car would hesitate to "go", but that was my fault for selecting the wrong gear for the conditions. Treat it like any other 4-cyl petrol and you'll be fine.
Refinement? Well, it's pretty average. Barely a whisper when on normal roads, especially if it's on 16's like the pre-facelifts, but there can be a bit of road and wind noise when on the motorways. To be fair to the S2000, it was on Toyo T1-r's (Which aren't the queitest tyres) and the owner said it was queiter with the hard top in place. Bare in mind it is a convertible made for fun not motorway hauls, and a cloth roof. Its no Maybach, but very easy to live with.
Stereo and speakers are utter tosh, which coming from my Accord (which has a brill stereo!) I was shocked. Try and find a model which has been fitted with aftermarket replacements.
The ride is good. Firm, but nothing uncomfortable. Took my Gran to the Doctors in it, with the only complaint being how to get in and out of the thing, solved by putting the roof down
. Handling is very good. Pre facelifts are known to be twitchy, but this one felt really good and inspired confidence, apparently due to the full geometry and alignment setup done a few weeks previous. Pushed to hard, it would "safety understeer", but a quick dab of power and a clutch kick would solve that. In real world terms, I had no issues keeping up with an E46 M3 CSL and a Mk2 Focus RS on some twisty roads in the dales.
Hope that helps OP. I'm not too clued up on what you need to look for in these cars, but from what I can remember....
All the one above needed over 65,000 miles was consumables and a new boot seal.
HTH!The model I was driving was a silver pre-facelift with the 247hp 2.0 F20C engine. The Engine is a real work of art. It's nice and dosile when below 4k, as well as frugal (40mpg can be had on a run). Take it up into the revs however, and VTEC comes into play. This one sounded immense, especially with an induction kit. I never had any issues with lack of torque really. Sometimes the car would hesitate to "go", but that was my fault for selecting the wrong gear for the conditions. Treat it like any other 4-cyl petrol and you'll be fine.
Refinement? Well, it's pretty average. Barely a whisper when on normal roads, especially if it's on 16's like the pre-facelifts, but there can be a bit of road and wind noise when on the motorways. To be fair to the S2000, it was on Toyo T1-r's (Which aren't the queitest tyres) and the owner said it was queiter with the hard top in place. Bare in mind it is a convertible made for fun not motorway hauls, and a cloth roof. Its no Maybach, but very easy to live with.
Stereo and speakers are utter tosh, which coming from my Accord (which has a brill stereo!) I was shocked. Try and find a model which has been fitted with aftermarket replacements.
The ride is good. Firm, but nothing uncomfortable. Took my Gran to the Doctors in it, with the only complaint being how to get in and out of the thing, solved by putting the roof down
. Handling is very good. Pre facelifts are known to be twitchy, but this one felt really good and inspired confidence, apparently due to the full geometry and alignment setup done a few weeks previous. Pushed to hard, it would "safety understeer", but a quick dab of power and a clutch kick would solve that. In real world terms, I had no issues keeping up with an E46 M3 CSL and a Mk2 Focus RS on some twisty roads in the dales.Hope that helps OP. I'm not too clued up on what you need to look for in these cars, but from what I can remember....
- Rust, especially around the rear arches.
- Worn bushes. The back end especially.
- Worn chain tensioners or noisy valves.
- Sticky rear calipers.
All the one above needed over 65,000 miles was consumables and a new boot seal.
CraigyMc said:
scotty_d said:
How strong is the boxters 3.2 lump keep hearing horror stories about them. I know i should not believe everything i hear on here being in to TVR's but i still need a reliable car for daily use.
I'd be interested by this too. I keep reading about RMS and IMS failures. How common is this?C
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