7.2 GT3 Rev Ranges

[SFO]

I know this topic has been covered many times, but search ain't working.

What are acceptable rev ranges? Are 1s, 2s and 3s OK? Or are none OK?

Thanks.

[Magic919]

None. Even range 1 is pretty nasty IIRC.

[Magic919]

Quick search found it http://pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t...

[ras62]

Ranges 1&2 no problem I believe. It would be unusual for a GT3 to have no range 1 at least.

Rev ranges - 997 GT3:
Create the VAL before deleting the fault memory. Overspeed events are documented as follows in the VAL:
Rev range 1: 8,400 -1 ... to 9,200 -1
⇒ Maximum permitted engine speed exceeded; engine damage possible.
Rev range 2: 9,200 -1 ... to 9,400 -1
⇒ Maximum permitted engine speed exceeded; engine damage possible.
Rev range 3: 9,400 -1 ... to 9,600 -1
⇒ Maximum permitted engine speed exceeded; engine damage possible.
Rev range 4: 9,600 -1 ... to 10,000 -1
⇒ Maximum permitted engine speed clearly exceeded; engine damage probable.
Rev range 5: 10,000 -1 ... to 11,000 -1
⇒ Maximum permitted engine speed very clearly exceeded; engine damage very probable.
Rev range 6: over 11,000 -1
⇒ Engine damage has generally occurred.
Information
Before starting engine repairs and submitting a warranty claim or granting a pre-owned car warranty:
In the event of overspeed events in range 4 – 6, we recommend that you contact the Technical Hotline before starting repairs or granting a pre-owned car warranty in order to find out how to proceed and agree on warranty entitlements.

[SFO]

thanks. very helpful.

car I'm interested has 13 in Rev Range 1 at around 27hours

[IanHug]

I thought that all the rev range recordings on a GT3 were above the rev limiter and therefore mechanical and bad. Unlike the other models where ranges 1 and 2 can be recorded by bouncing off the limiter.

[SFO]

IanHug said:

I thought that all the rev range recordings on a GT3 were above the rev limiter and therefore mechanical and bad. Unlike the other models where ranges 1 and 2 can be recorded by bouncing off the limiter.

also what I thought.

[ttdan]

ras62 said:

Ranges 1&2 no problem I believe. It would be unusual for a GT3 to have no range 1 at least.

Rev ranges - 997 GT3:
Create the VAL before deleting the fault memory. Overspeed events are documented as follows in the VAL:
Rev range 1: 8,400 -1 ... to 9,200 -1
⇒ Maximum permitted engine speed exceeded; engine damage possible.
Rev range 2: 9,200 -1 ... to 9,400 -1
⇒ Maximum permitted engine speed exceeded; engine damage possible.
Rev range 3: 9,400 -1 ... to 9,600 -1
⇒ Maximum permitted engine speed exceeded; engine damage possible.
Rev range 4: 9,600 -1 ... to 10,000 -1
⇒ Maximum permitted engine speed clearly exceeded; engine damage probable.
Rev range 5: 10,000 -1 ... to 11,000 -1
⇒ Maximum permitted engine speed very clearly exceeded; engine damage very probable.
Rev range 6: over 11,000 -1
⇒ Engine damage has generally occurred.
Information
Before starting engine repairs and submitting a warranty claim or granting a pre-owned car warranty:
In the event of overspeed events in range 4 – 6, we recommend that you contact the Technical Hotline before starting repairs or granting a pre-owned car warranty in order to find out how to proceed and agree on warranty entitlements.

Is this fact? If so what's the source of the info?

[DiscoColin]

ttdan said:

ras62 said:

Ranges 1&2 no problem I believe. It would be unusual for a GT3 to have no range 1 at least.

Rev ranges - 997 GT3:
Create the VAL before deleting the fault memory. Overspeed events are documented as follows in the VAL:
Rev range 1: 8,400 -1 ... to 9,200 -1
⇒ Maximum permitted engine speed exceeded; engine damage possible.
Rev range 2: 9,200 -1 ... to 9,400 -1
⇒ Maximum permitted engine speed exceeded; engine damage possible.
Rev range 3: 9,400 -1 ... to 9,600 -1
⇒ Maximum permitted engine speed exceeded; engine damage possible.
Rev range 4: 9,600 -1 ... to 10,000 -1
⇒ Maximum permitted engine speed clearly exceeded; engine damage probable.
Rev range 5: 10,000 -1 ... to 11,000 -1
⇒ Maximum permitted engine speed very clearly exceeded; engine damage very probable.
Rev range 6: over 11,000 -1
⇒ Engine damage has generally occurred.
Information
Before starting engine repairs and submitting a warranty claim or granting a pre-owned car warranty:
In the event of overspeed events in range 4 – 6, we recommend that you contact the Technical Hotline before starting repairs or granting a pre-owned car warranty in order to find out how to proceed and agree on warranty entitlements.

Is this fact? If so what's the source of the info?

I don't know where that comes from, but range 1 should start at 9000rpm. The rest are correct though. The link from Magic919 to the old thread earlier in here has all of the argument from last time though.....

Range 1s on a 996 are okay (they only have 2 rev ranges and 1 is the limiter), but you don't want anything on a 997.

[nsm3]

I have bounced my gen 1 off the limiter in 2nd gear a few times, but subsequent checks (twice) have shown no over revs in any range, so I suspect that only mechanical/down change over revs are recorded, which I guess aren't great?

[SonnyM]

"Damaged unit parts due to high engine speed.

The information below is intended to help you to evaluate engine damage, which may occur as a result of one or more overspeed events. You can also use the values entered in the VAL to improve the assessment process for granting pre-owned car warranties, for example, and to examine entitlements for carrying out repairs under warranty.
Engines are designed to operate at a maximum permitted speed. This engine speed is not exceeded when the vehicle is driven normally. However, driving and operating problems (e.g. “changing to the wrong gear” on vehicles with manual transmission) or manipulation (e.g. tuning) can cause the maximum permitted engine speed to be exceeded when the vehicle is driven.
Overspeed events are stored in the DME control unit. The following values are also recorded:
- Number of ignition attempts in each overspeed range 1), and,
- Status of the hourmeter during the last overspeed event 2).
1) Overspeed range = Defined rev ranges with classification of expected engine damage, e.g. engine damage possible, ... probable, ... very probable, engine damage has generally occurred; see section ⇒ 'Rev ranges'.
2) For technical reasons, overspeed events are entered in a preset time interval. As a result, there may be entries in a higher rev range (e.g. range 2), while no entries are stored in the lower range.

Typical faults and symptoms as a result of overspeed events may include the following:

• Damaged valves and/or pistons (impact marks on the valve, valve impressions on the piston, valve bent).
• Cylinder liner damage (even “piston seizure”).
• Damaged or displaced connecting rod bearings.
• Loosened or loose fastening screw(s) on the crankshaft pulley.
• Loosened or loose fastening screw(s) on the camshaft gear.
• Loosened or loose connecting rod bolts.
• Cracked timing chain(s).
• Changed timing.
• Irreparably damaged clutch elements (pressure plate and/or drive plate).
• Vibrations and/or engine imbalance due to irreparably damaged clutch elements.
• Vibrations around the transmission.
• Defective synchronisation.

Information

If such faults or symptoms are present together with engine damage, the VAL that was created must be checked for overspeed entries.

If overspeed entries are found and if the difference between the current hourmeter and the status when the last overspeed event was recorded is less than 50 operating hours, there is a high probability that the damage was caused by overspeed event(s).

The value “50 operating hours” should be seen as a guide. The possibility of engine damage occurring much later due to previous overspeed event(s) cannot be ruled out.


Rev ranges - 997 GT3:

Create the VAL before deleting the fault memory. Overspeed events are documented as follows in the VAL:
Rev range 1: 8,400 -1 ... to 9,200 -1
⇒ Maximum permitted engine speed exceeded; engine damage possible.
Rev range 2: 9,200 -1 ... to 9,400 -1
⇒ Maximum permitted engine speed exceeded; engine damage possible.
Rev range 3: 9,400 -1 ... to 9,600 -1
⇒ Maximum permitted engine speed exceeded; engine damage possible.
Rev range 4: 9,600 -1 ... to 10,000 -1
⇒ Maximum permitted engine speed clearly exceeded; engine damage probable.
Rev range 5: 10,000 -1 ... to 11,000 -1
⇒ Maximum permitted engine speed very clearly exceeded; engine damage very probable.
Rev range 6: over 11,000 -1
⇒ Engine damage has generally occurred.
Information

Before starting engine repairs and submitting a warranty claim or granting a pre-owned car warranty:
In the event of overspeed events in range 4 – 6, we recommend that you contact the Technical Hotline before starting repairs or granting a pre-owned car warranty in order to find out how to proceed and agree on warranty entitlements.
"

Taken from another post:

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/997-gt2-gt3-...

[ras62]

DiscoColin said:

I don't know where that comes from, but range 1 should start at 9000rpm. The rest are correct though. The link from Magic919 to the old thread earlier in here has all of the argument from last time though.....

Range 1s on a 996 are okay (they only have 2 rev ranges and 1 is the limiter), but you don't want anything on a 997.

Not according to this thread which links to info supplied by SONNYM
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/997-gt2-gt3-...

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...35-post37.h...

[SFO]

there's conflicting information on RR 1. It's either:

1. > 9000 and < 9200
or
2. > 8400 and < 9200

If it's no. 2, that would mean there would be rev range 1s if you bounce off the limiter as max engine speed on 7.2 GT3 is 8500.

[Durzel]

Wouldn't 13 ignitions be a tiny amount to be of concern, especially in RR1? As a 6-cylinder engine with 3 ignitions per revolution it sounds anomolous anyway (others might disagree).

Ask Porsche what their threshold is for requiring an engine inspection on a GT3 to apply a warranty - that'll give you a good frame of reference.

[SFO]

Durzel said:

Wouldn't 13 ignitions be a tiny amount to be of concern, especially in RR1? As a 6-cylinder engine with 3 ignitions per revolution it sounds anomolous anyway (others might disagree).

Ask Porsche what their threshold is for requiring an engine inspection on a GT3 to apply a warranty - that'll give you a good frame of reference.

I agree 13 in RR1 is de minimis ..

OPCs have said different things re: rev ranges, engine inspections and warranty, some have said 5 and 6, others have said 4, 5 and 6. None have said 1, 2 or 3.

[HokumPokum]

SFO said:

I agree 13 in RR1 is de minimis ..

OPCs have said different things re: rev ranges, engine inspections and warranty, some have said 5 and 6, others have said 4, 5 and 6. None have said 1, 2 or 3.

It's the best engineered version of the flat 6. Even in 996 GT3 form it can handle 9k rpms, so I woouldn't be surprised that rev range 1 is 9k. unlike std dfi engines where even before hitting the limiter will trigger rev range 1. rev range 2 is definitely over the limiter on std engines.

The thing to note is only 13 ignitions. that to me is barely registering an overrev before it got back into no problem land.