PCCB wear and track day use
Discussion
DG27 said:
What have people experienced with wear on PCCB rotors/brake discs on this forum please?
I am interested in mileage, type of use, pad expected life etc and any use on track or warranty issues.
Especially in 4wd and turbo cars
Many thanks
You will want to use the search on this one as it has been done extensively on here many times. The summary is that PCCBs are known to have lasted 179000 road only miles on a 996 GT3 and less than 4 track days on a 997 GT2 with all manner of stories in between. There really is no definitive answer to the question I am afraid - life varies by use, driving style and even the tracks that the car is driven on. Brake disks are not covered under warranty and PCCB disks cost approximately £3500 each (so about £14k per set plus fitting, pads and sensors). Good hunting for the info that you need.I am interested in mileage, type of use, pad expected life etc and any use on track or warranty issues.
Especially in 4wd and turbo cars
Many thanks
DiscoColin said:
You will want to use the search on this one as it has been done extensively on here many times. The summary is that PCCBs are known to have lasted 179000 road only miles on a 996 GT3 and less than 4 track days on a 997 GT2 with all manner of stories in between. There really is no definitive answer to the question I am afraid - life varies by use, driving style and even the tracks that the car is driven on. Brake disks are not covered under warranty and PCCB disks cost approximately £3500 each (so about £14k per set plus fitting, pads and sensors). Good hunting for the info that you need.
I can only echo the above comments. Some people get squillions of miles out of them and some people kill them very quickly. It all depends on driving style , braking style and use the car is put too. To give you an example I had the same brake setup as another guy not on a porsche but the analogy still applies. He went from new pad to down to the backing plates in one trackday , yes .. one trackday ! Mine on the otherhand did 4 trackdays and 5k miles and still had 5mm of frictional material left. Lap times were identical, so dont think he was trying harder than I !
I think generally I can sum it up thus : If you`re a track junky then steel is the way forward. If you drive hard on the road with a few trackdays then ceramics are fine.
If you enter the ABS threshold when driving either on track or road then you will shorten the life of the PCCB`s and perhaps this is why some people kill them on track relatively easily.
Personally I like them as the lack of dust keeps the wheels looking good which means the whole car looks good. People talk about feel and the lightweight but I am not that good to notice.
Despite how good they are I would not want to replace one let alone all 4.
I've got a GT2 with PCCB's obviously, its done well over 70k miles & they look like brand new, they may have been changed at some point albeit there is nothing in the history indicating this is the case.
Biggest issue is when removing the wheels to avoid catching the discs/rotors as they are easily chipped.
Porsche & various other manufacturers indicate you are allowed 3 chips per disc of no more than 5mm i think. I think in the early days there was a lot of hype and worry about them cracking but like everything else i guess it's how you treat them. When they are warmed they are far superior.
Biggest issue is when removing the wheels to avoid catching the discs/rotors as they are easily chipped.
Porsche & various other manufacturers indicate you are allowed 3 chips per disc of no more than 5mm i think. I think in the early days there was a lot of hype and worry about them cracking but like everything else i guess it's how you treat them. When they are warmed they are far superior.
I have a friend with a 997gt3 rs with pccb. Braking performance is superb. He has just had the pads replaced after circa 5k miles/ 7 track days. Note these have cost £1500 vs £550 for a set of Pagids for my gt3. I raise this because it's pretty common knowledge the discs are mega money but perhaps you would not expct the pads to cost so much.
squirejo said:
I have a friend with a 997gt3 rs with pccb. Braking performance is superb. He has just had the pads replaced after circa 5k miles/ 7 track days. Note these have cost £1500 vs £550 for a set of Pagids for my gt3. I raise this because it's pretty common knowledge the discs are mega money but perhaps you would not expct the pads to cost so much.
The pads are not that much! Where the hell did he get them done?I pay about £350 for front or rear Porsche Pajid pads, so £700 all round. Factor in fitting kit if you need it, £70 for both front and rear, new shims which are like £8 each, need like 20 of them and the sensors which is about £40.
Labour to do pads no more than 2hrs. Should be 1k maximum fitted!
I can assure you I am not making it up - we had a specific discussion about the relative cost of pads ( complete front and rear) for his vs mine on steel discs. He had an OPC do the job, because most of the local specialists contacted had either never replaced ceramics pads before, were similar cost quotes and/ or didn't own the massive dildo tool thing to locate the wheels back on to ensure against damage which as another poster identifies, the fragility of the disc from chipping can be another factor. Don't let a muppet change your tyres on your pccb equipped car.
Crimp a Length! said:
I've got a GT2 with PCCB's obviously, its done well over 70k miles & they look like brand new, they may have been changed at some point albeit there is nothing in the history indicating this is the case.
Biggest issue is when removing the wheels to avoid catching the discs/rotors as they are easily chipped.
Porsche & various other manufacturers indicate you are allowed 3 chips per disc of no more than 5mm i think. I think in the early days there was a lot of hype and worry about them cracking but like everything else i guess it's how you treat them. When they are warmed they are far superior.
Regarding the chipped rotors risk...Biggest issue is when removing the wheels to avoid catching the discs/rotors as they are easily chipped.
Porsche & various other manufacturers indicate you are allowed 3 chips per disc of no more than 5mm i think. I think in the early days there was a lot of hype and worry about them cracking but like everything else i guess it's how you treat them. When they are warmed they are far superior.
In my 996 Turbo toolkit a threaded rod is included. The intent of this is to remove one of the wheel bolts and thread this rod in its place, then remove the rest and when the wheel is released from the hub the rod prevents the wheel from dropping down on the rotor and chipping it.
When I'm at a dealer almost always one car is on the lift with these fitted. The techs use them for every wheel removal regardless if PCCBs are fitted to avoid damaging a customer's wheel, even if the damage is only cosmetic.
The techs told me the cars fitted with PCCBs should come with 2 of these rods standard in the toolkit.
I bought 2 more -- under $15/each -- and now my Turbo has 2 and my Boxster (17" wheels) has the one.
I highly recommend if your car's toolkit doesn't at least have 2 of these rods to pick up a pair and use only shops/techs that are aware of what they are for and when they are to be used.
Sincerely,
Rockster.
Rockster said:
Crimp a Length! said:
I've got a GT2 with PCCB's obviously, its done well over 70k miles & they look like brand new, they may have been changed at some point albeit there is nothing in the history indicating this is the case.
Biggest issue is when removing the wheels to avoid catching the discs/rotors as they are easily chipped.
Porsche & various other manufacturers indicate you are allowed 3 chips per disc of no more than 5mm i think. I think in the early days there was a lot of hype and worry about them cracking but like everything else i guess it's how you treat them. When they are warmed they are far superior.
Regarding the chipped rotors risk...Biggest issue is when removing the wheels to avoid catching the discs/rotors as they are easily chipped.
Porsche & various other manufacturers indicate you are allowed 3 chips per disc of no more than 5mm i think. I think in the early days there was a lot of hype and worry about them cracking but like everything else i guess it's how you treat them. When they are warmed they are far superior.
In my 996 Turbo toolkit a threaded rod is included. The intent of this is to remove one of the wheel bolts and thread this rod in its place, then remove the rest and when the wheel is released from the hub the rod prevents the wheel from dropping down on the rotor and chipping it.
When I'm at a dealer almost always one car is on the lift with these fitted. The techs use them for every wheel removal regardless if PCCBs are fitted to avoid damaging a customer's wheel, even if the damage is only cosmetic.
The techs told me the cars fitted with PCCBs should come with 2 of these rods standard in the toolkit.
I bought 2 more -- under $15/each -- and now my Turbo has 2 and my Boxster (17" wheels) has the one.
I highly recommend if your car's toolkit doesn't at least have 2 of these rods to pick up a pair and use only shops/techs that are aware of what they are for and when they are to be used.
Sincerely,
Rockster.
Fortunately there are no chips on my discs, but i know its a common occurrence with people with PCCB's, as i stated i think within reason the protocol is 3 chips per disc.
your toolkit will have none........ at least mine didn't and I have PCCBs on my spyder.
you will need to buy them separately.
My paranoia on PCCBs gets to a fevered pitch caused by reading about failed discs on evo and on the internet. can someone tell me how to see if it has failed? And how does it fail actually compared with steel discs?
you will need to buy them separately.
My paranoia on PCCBs gets to a fevered pitch caused by reading about failed discs on evo and on the internet. can someone tell me how to see if it has failed? And how does it fail actually compared with steel discs?
Fwiw, the ballpark for ceramic disc life is about 3 sets of pads. discs generally need changed out once your third set is done though there's always those outwith this norm in either direction.
You can use this as a rule of thumb to calculate how quickly you are going through your discs though.
The discs don't wear down with anywhere near the material loss metal discs see so even when shot won't show a lip at the edge etc.
Weighing them to calculate material loss is the most accurate way to calculate wear, this is how Ferrari calculate wear/replacement for their road cars.
I've no idea if Porsche do this for their road cars though.
You can use this as a rule of thumb to calculate how quickly you are going through your discs though.
The discs don't wear down with anywhere near the material loss metal discs see so even when shot won't show a lip at the edge etc.
Weighing them to calculate material loss is the most accurate way to calculate wear, this is how Ferrari calculate wear/replacement for their road cars.
I've no idea if Porsche do this for their road cars though.
squirejo said:
I have a friend with a 997gt3 rs with pccb. Braking performance is superb. He has just had the pads replaced after circa 5k miles/ 7 track days. Note these have cost £1500 vs £550 for a set of Pagids for my gt3. I raise this because it's pretty common knowledge the discs are mega money but perhaps you would not expct the pads to cost so much.
You mate has had his trousers pulled down. As others have said the pads are roughly £350 front and the same give or take a pound or two for the rears.The extras ontop like the fitting kit and rubbers are not really needed unless you have ocd. Porsche OEM. Getting an OPC to fit them may account for the huge mark up.The rods that allow you to slide the wheels off "used to be" included when speccing PCCB, but are no longer. You may be lucky and have them or not. They are a great bit of kit and even if you dont have them moan and get them for free or shell out £12 each. The toolkit has space to slot 2 in the polystyrene.
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