New cars that are good to drive?
Discussion
Ok, stay with me a moment.
I know my garage on here doesn't exactly have the best credentials ever, but I'm finding I'm definitely deriving more pleasure from driving older (or cars with older technology) then some of the new vehicles I get to drive. Let's limit this discussion to most 'normal' cars you see on the roads these days.
The best car to drive I've had, is the Rover 45 as shown in my current fleet. This model did get a lot of praise for its chassis, but also, the gearchange is heavy and feels like it is mechanically connected, the steering (although powered) is heavy and has plenty of feel, the brakes are nicely progressive without feeling massively over servo'd.
Are there any run of the mill cars that would feel as 'good' to drive these days? I know it's all subjective, but certainly the BMW 3 Series (current shape) nor the Audi A3 have anywhere near the same driver involvement. Not to mention the other (worse) cars I've driven which include; Astras in various guises, Picassos, Peugeot 307/207, current shape renault megane etc...
Discuss?
I know my garage on here doesn't exactly have the best credentials ever, but I'm finding I'm definitely deriving more pleasure from driving older (or cars with older technology) then some of the new vehicles I get to drive. Let's limit this discussion to most 'normal' cars you see on the roads these days.
The best car to drive I've had, is the Rover 45 as shown in my current fleet. This model did get a lot of praise for its chassis, but also, the gearchange is heavy and feels like it is mechanically connected, the steering (although powered) is heavy and has plenty of feel, the brakes are nicely progressive without feeling massively over servo'd.
Are there any run of the mill cars that would feel as 'good' to drive these days? I know it's all subjective, but certainly the BMW 3 Series (current shape) nor the Audi A3 have anywhere near the same driver involvement. Not to mention the other (worse) cars I've driven which include; Astras in various guises, Picassos, Peugeot 307/207, current shape renault megane etc...
Discuss?
GT86/BRZ is pretty much a given, but that was specially designed that way.
Manufacturers focus group things constantly, and the result is that the general public prefer: Grabby brakes (because they feel powerful), Overassisted steering (because it's easier to park), rock hard suspension (because it's sporty), massive wheels and rubber band tyres (because it's sporty), and automated gearboxes (dual clutch included).
with the added issues of EuroNCAP (which adds weight and reduces visibility) and fuel economy, it's no wonder that bread and butter cars are about as exciting as bread and butter.
Manufacturers focus group things constantly, and the result is that the general public prefer: Grabby brakes (because they feel powerful), Overassisted steering (because it's easier to park), rock hard suspension (because it's sporty), massive wheels and rubber band tyres (because it's sporty), and automated gearboxes (dual clutch included).
with the added issues of EuroNCAP (which adds weight and reduces visibility) and fuel economy, it's no wonder that bread and butter cars are about as exciting as bread and butter.
Last year I drove a new A6 avant auto on some city streets then on the motorway. I then did the same journey in a Daewoo Matiz later in the day. Dont ask why...it was a sort of test feedback thing, anyway
The A6 was very comfortable and relaxing but very forgetable also. From what I remember it was a sort of 'zero' experience, I couldnt feel what the car was doing, it felt very numb and overall not that enjoyable.
The Matiz. This was not at all refined and certainly not relaxing. I was quite on edge on the motorway, as when other cars blasted past the shockwave threw the car all over and sometimes out of my lane (it was on an autobahn so sometimes the speed difference was very high).
The A6 was a very capable car but I never got a sense that I knew expactly what the car was doing underneath me. The Matiz, although far less capable, gave me much more feedback and with it being a manual I felt more in control.
It may sound daft but for enjoyment and fun I'd go for the Matiz
The A6 was very comfortable and relaxing but very forgetable also. From what I remember it was a sort of 'zero' experience, I couldnt feel what the car was doing, it felt very numb and overall not that enjoyable.
The Matiz. This was not at all refined and certainly not relaxing. I was quite on edge on the motorway, as when other cars blasted past the shockwave threw the car all over and sometimes out of my lane (it was on an autobahn so sometimes the speed difference was very high).
The A6 was a very capable car but I never got a sense that I knew expactly what the car was doing underneath me. The Matiz, although far less capable, gave me much more feedback and with it being a manual I felt more in control.
It may sound daft but for enjoyment and fun I'd go for the Matiz
KardioKate said:
scenario8 said:
My MINI was great fun to drive.
D'ya know... I've never driven a MINI. Nor a Mini for that matter. Might have to find someone with one to have a go 
scenario8 said:
Coming from "modern" cars you might find a Mini a real shock. Even a modern MINI was a revelation to friends used to their flabby wallowy remote saloons and hatchbacks who "had to" borrow it for a bit. Good honest cheap fun way to crack on with what should be a drudging commute.
I've driven plenty of classics so it shouldnt be!KardioKate said:
scenario8 said:
My MINI was great fun to drive.
D'ya know... I've never driven a MINI. Nor a Mini for that matter. Might have to find someone with one to have a go If only my current R56 Cooper S had the same steering and turn-in response... it would be darn near perfect.
StottyZr said:
Swoll, she has a point. You'll feel connected to an old Rover because of how mechanical everything is.
Think throttle cable, not throttle position sensor and you might get my point.
Think throttle cable, not throttle position sensor and you might get my point.
KardioKate said:
SWoll said:
Are there any new cars that are as good to drive as a 1.8 Rover 45?
More involving than a new 3 series?
You're kidding right?
Aren't you?
Don't quite understand. The 3 series felt isolated and over servo'd. Read my OP again.More involving than a new 3 series?
You're kidding right?
Aren't you?
Whilst I agree with your sentiment I'm afraid that holding up the Rover 45 as some sort of paragon of driver involvement is frankly laughable.
Many people mistake 'heavy' controls for 'feelsome' and this is a perfect example. I've driven plenty of Rover products over the years from 100's to 800's and none of them have been anything other than average in the dynamic stakes.
If you had used an E36 3-Series as an example of how newer cars have become softer and less 'involving' I would have been right with you. Even a MK1 Focus or Pug 205/306 owould have had me agreeing.
But a Rover 45? That's the yard stick?
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