1999 F1 Ferrari crash at Laguna
Discussion
What do you make of this?
Apparantly the driver was uninjured, the accident happened at slow speed yet the whole front has come off. Probably not bolted on securely (amatuer owners) I'm sure but if not.......!!!!!!
www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/showthread.php?t=6155
More bits on here - www.autoracing1.com/
Apparantly the driver was uninjured, the accident happened at slow speed yet the whole front has come off. Probably not bolted on securely (amatuer owners) I'm sure but if not.......!!!!!!
www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/showthread.php?t=6155
More bits on here - www.autoracing1.com/
There are no signs of the nose being 'torn' from the main body of the car, suggesting that the nosecone would have unbolted along that line. That suggests faulty fasteners rather than a structural weakness, but I don't know if that isn't even more surprising, that there is a major seam in the bodywork just above the driver's knees.
I know Champ cars were revamped quite a bit after Alex Zanardi's crash, I would have thought someone in F1 might have had similar concerns. Guess not...
I know Champ cars were revamped quite a bit after Alex Zanardi's crash, I would have thought someone in F1 might have had similar concerns. Guess not...
Ahonen said:
That's bizarre. It almost looks like the chap was driving a show car mock-up. Nothing should fall apart like that.
Lucky, lucky bugger.
This is the only explanation that I can think of too. An F1 tub would simply not have a join at that point, if any joins at all. I know that a few years ago the chassis were constructed in two pieces with the join down the length of the part - technology many have moved onto one piece construction now.
If he was driving a show car at any speed I can only say that he was a very very lucky man!
egomeister said:
Ahonen said:
That's bizarre. It almost looks like the chap was driving a show car mock-up. Nothing should fall apart like that.
Lucky, lucky bugger.
This is the only explanation that I can think of too. An F1 tub would simply not have a join at that point, if any joins at all. I know that a few years ago the chassis were constructed in two pieces with the join down the length of the part - technology many have moved onto one piece construction now.
If he was driving a show car at any speed I can only say that he was a very very lucky man!
I have NEVER seen any F1 tub in recent years break there. The pics show that the nosecone is remarkably intact, no break along where the nose bolts on to the tub, which is normally where the break occours. I struggle to beleive the nose is bonded together in two sections. Nothing to do with safety, F1 teams couldn't get the tub stiff enough for their handling preferences like that surely!?!?
Makes me think he was driving a mock-up.
Remember, not even with Senna and Ratzenberger in 1994 did the tubs break like that, that high up, and so cleanly. And they are much stronger than back then
Incidentaly, Champ cars have a dual bulkhead...;-)
>> Edited by jimmyc412t2 on Tuesday 17th August 19:55
FourWheelDrift said:
I actually find it ironic that it's an F199 Ferrari from the 1999 season, the same chassis of car that Schumacher crashed at Silverstone in, breaking his leg and sidelining him for almost the rest of the season.
I truly believe its a mock-up. might even be Michaels tub from silverstone '99 with a new nose glued on. Michaels tub didn't break anywhere near that high up. In F1 drivers tend to injure themselves when suspension mounts punch into the cockpit.
F1 cars are desinged to handle massive forces int his area - tubs are bonded as one piece and should not - CANNOT! - break so cleanly there for reasons of handling rigidity as well as safety.
Some dude has put an engine in a mock up and paid the price...
Now i'm looking closer, its even running on old bridgestones rather than a new set of control rubber made by someone like AVON. I keep smelling 'ameuter'
>> Edited by jimmyc412t2 on Tuesday 17th August 20:02
I've seen that car running at Donington last year, and it looked fine then. IIRC, Ferrari run the cars themselves, for the customers. I'd be amazed if someone would go to the trouble to build a carbon tubbed mockup. 'Tis a very, very wierd place for a modern F1 car to break though. Only thing I can think is that it was a very heavy 'double impact' accident
The DJ 27 said:
I've seen that car running at Donington last year, and it looked fine then. IIRC, Ferrari run the cars themselves, for the customers. I'd be amazed if someone would go to the trouble to build a carbon tubbed mockup. 'Tis a very, very wierd place for a modern F1 car to break though. Only thing I can think is that it was a very heavy 'double impact' accident
I could be wrong, but i was under the impression that it was a 2000 car that ran at donington last year? Ferrari do prepare cars for customers if required but they aren't forced to. Anyway...
When I say mock-up I mean real carbon F1 chassis that has been rebuilt by the factory into a show car - hence a carbon tub...but one in two sections. This is because F1 show cars are typically totalled tubs with over-mileage parts bolted on to give the effect...maybe in this case it was a good nose and good rear tub section cut cleanly and bonded back together?
If the car had had a heavy double impact, then surely the nose would have broken at the natural weak point - where the nosecone/front wing assembly bolts to the tub.
Remember this tub broke just forward of the drivers HANDS. Smells very fishy to me. If you look at the shot of the nose section after the accident, the actual nose impact is similar to a heavy "nerf" into the back of another car. It can't have gone in head on with much force.
I also think this explains why the driver was relativley uninjured. The nose section split cleanly and pulled away from the cockpit. If it had been "ripped" off with the ferocity to tear a kosher F1 tub there, there would have been very little left of the driver at all. (Remember Alex Zanardi's accident at Lausitz in a champ car).
Its not only the place the tub broke, but how CLEAN it broke. Think of all the accidents ethere's ever been in carbon-constructed race cars. Carbon doesn't break cleanly like that unless there was a join
in Schumacher's 1999 accident
http://cfm.globalf1.net/images/accidents/files/crash_040.jpg
The car didn't break there and it went in head on at serious speed. If it looks like it did break, remembered its buried up to the cockpit in tyres!
If there was a design fault in that Ferrari, then Michael wouldn't be here to win 7 championships and bore us all.
Something definatley wrong with that! If it was a slow speed impact on the right front it should have (at most I would have thought) broken the suspension fron wing nose cone etc. There shouldn't be a seam anywhere near there. When I visited the Renault F1 factory a few weeks back I got to look at a new tub - and from what I could see they seem to be of a one piece construction.
I would agree with the 'show car' with an engine theory.
All IMHO of course....
Chris
I concur that tubs are laminated and 'claved as one piece. So, either a cut and shut of two totalled tubs as said above.
Or, if the guy is that much bigger, someone may have had the great idea of slicing through the tub to put an extension in to make the cockpit big enough for a rich tub-o-lard.
Or, if the guy is that much bigger, someone may have had the great idea of slicing through the tub to put an extension in to make the cockpit big enough for a rich tub-o-lard.
Take a look at this (Villeneuve Australia)
You can see the make up of the modern F1 tub below..
The front ends by the feet and to the rear it ends just beyond the roll hoop to allow the engine to be wiped off, whereas the Ferrari in the accident at Monterray has a clean break around the tops of the legs. It must have been a rebuilt car or even a show car, because it just isnt right.
You can see the make up of the modern F1 tub below..
The front ends by the feet and to the rear it ends just beyond the roll hoop to allow the engine to be wiped off, whereas the Ferrari in the accident at Monterray has a clean break around the tops of the legs. It must have been a rebuilt car or even a show car, because it just isnt right.
that looks like it failed at the transition point where the survival cell is allowed to taper to a smaller cross section, as indicated on the spec below. If memory serves me correctly there is an internal bulkhead at that point which might act as an edge to fail against causing a clean failure.
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