Can an engine last indefinitely ?
Discussion
As per the title, have read about engine that, when stripped after a high mileage still had the honing marks on the bores and no discernible wear.
Will and engine always wear the bores, bearings and valve train by some percentage or once run in, with clean oil and mechanically sympathetic use never actully wear out, they seem to have got the tolerances to a point where they dont wear out in 100k or less these days and it is usually an economic decision to write a car off rather than the engine being dead.
I tend to find that it is poor maintenance that will eventually kill and engine, a cam belt snapping or wear from oil never being changed.
I suppose it depends on the manufacturer, design faults play their part like oil sludging in Saabs or Headgaskets on Rovers, even then a lot of this is down to people getting in and driving the car, year after year without ever looking under the bonnet.
So, how many miles would an engine with no known achilles heel, good maintenance and a careful driver do before wear got to it ?
Will and engine always wear the bores, bearings and valve train by some percentage or once run in, with clean oil and mechanically sympathetic use never actully wear out, they seem to have got the tolerances to a point where they dont wear out in 100k or less these days and it is usually an economic decision to write a car off rather than the engine being dead.
I tend to find that it is poor maintenance that will eventually kill and engine, a cam belt snapping or wear from oil never being changed.
I suppose it depends on the manufacturer, design faults play their part like oil sludging in Saabs or Headgaskets on Rovers, even then a lot of this is down to people getting in and driving the car, year after year without ever looking under the bonnet.
So, how many miles would an engine with no known achilles heel, good maintenance and a careful driver do before wear got to it ?
Years ago an E30 325i did a million on a rolling road, when stripped all parts were in manufactures tolerences, on the road though thats a diofferent ball game, let me get this straight, your saying that hoses would never fail, bmw waterpumps wouldnt be s
t, etc etc, an interesting question, the engine would fail eventually, the internals would wear, friction you see but how long, havent a clue.
t, etc etc, an interesting question, the engine would fail eventually, the internals would wear, friction you see but how long, havent a clue.rumple said:
Years ago an E30 325i did a million on a rolling road, when stripped all parts were in manufactures tolerences, on the road though thats a diofferent ball game, let me get this straight, your saying that hoses would never fail, bmw waterpumps wouldnt be st, etc etc, an interesting question, the engine would fail eventually, the internals would wear, friction you see but how long, havent a clue.
Everything on a car is costed out, if we let the engineers specify the parts to last, I dont think iffy waterpumps and cheapy hoses would be on the agend, perhaps if they took more of the approach they do for jet engines in commercial planes, i.e. very little is to do with cost and all to do with safety (which in a roundabout way is cost if it goes wrong, cheaper to spec decent components than pay 300 families out)t, etc etc, an interesting question, the engine would fail eventually, the internals would wear, friction you see but how long, havent a clue.The friction is always there of course but with modern oils, coatings and tolerances it will be minimal.
I remember reading about that 325i in Autocar, that was then, I am sure the manufacturing and materials have improved from the eighties.
I reckon it would be possible for a car to do a million miles on the original engine without it being taken apart if no mishaps befell it.
I suppose the BMW is a bit of an artifical test but kind of prooves it is possible, trouble is real driving involves extremes of temperature, dirt and abuse. I am guessing this never went cold and the old adverts used to say that most engine wear is done as the car warms up from cold. This car avoided as well, in about 1995 being Barried with some naff alloys and a tatty body kit as so many did.
J4CKO said:
As per the title, have read about engine that, when stripped after a high mileage still had the honing marks on the bores and no discernible wear.
Will and engine always wear the bores, bearings and valve train by some percentage or once run in, with clean oil and mechanically sympathetic use never actully wear out, they seem to have got the tolerances to a point where they dont wear out in 100k or less these days and it is usually an economic decision to write a car off rather than the engine being dead.
I tend to find that it is poor maintenance that will eventually kill and engine, a cam belt snapping or wear from oil never being changed.
I suppose it depends on the manufacturer, design faults play their part like oil sludging in Saabs or Headgaskets on Rovers, even then a lot of this is down to people getting in and driving the car, year after year without ever looking under the bonnet.
So, how many miles would an engine with no known achilles heel, good maintenance and a careful driver do before wear got to it ?
My Mercedes 300TE-24 had 430,000 miles on it when written off by an uninsured driver ; numerous others in my ownership have gone well beyond 200K without any signs of engine trouble .Will and engine always wear the bores, bearings and valve train by some percentage or once run in, with clean oil and mechanically sympathetic use never actully wear out, they seem to have got the tolerances to a point where they dont wear out in 100k or less these days and it is usually an economic decision to write a car off rather than the engine being dead.
I tend to find that it is poor maintenance that will eventually kill and engine, a cam belt snapping or wear from oil never being changed.
I suppose it depends on the manufacturer, design faults play their part like oil sludging in Saabs or Headgaskets on Rovers, even then a lot of this is down to people getting in and driving the car, year after year without ever looking under the bonnet.
So, how many miles would an engine with no known achilles heel, good maintenance and a careful driver do before wear got to it ?
Million milers are not that uncommon .
I buy my cars just run in with 100K
T'other day I was reading a thread about whether to use a diesel or a natural gas engine to run an irrigation pump. The NG engines are, AFAIK, versions of the Chevy and Ford V8's found in the larger pickups. They wouldn't be putting out 3/400hp, but would be working pretty hard 24/7 for weeks at a time and were lasting 20-25,000 hours, which is probably easily double what that BMW engine did on a test bed. They were getting alternators, water pumps and some valve work in that time and the fuel is of varying quality.
It's my guess that most engines out last the cars they are in now.
It's my guess that most engines out last the cars they are in now.
I say anyone thats committed to keeping a car to 300k has looked after it well. Most people (who don't know anything about cars) seem to bin them at the 80,000-90,000 mark. Seems silly really, most cars without a huge defect I think could last easily into 200k. Least that means we can get a bargain (although whether they looked after it is up for question).
Most engines these days will outlast the point where the car is to be scrapped, simply because of the economics of banger ownership. It's cheaper to buy a slightly less worn car than to keep one going. Plus, governments (successive) want people to ditch cars and buy newer for emissions purposes (and to promote trade).
However, in cherished cars, there's no reason why an engine can't exceed half a million miles with careful servicing but even this requires you to change belts, pumps, filter etc. If you're truly keen to keep a block going, you could "Trigger's Broom" it forever no doubt.
However, in cherished cars, there's no reason why an engine can't exceed half a million miles with careful servicing but even this requires you to change belts, pumps, filter etc. If you're truly keen to keep a block going, you could "Trigger's Broom" it forever no doubt.
I's not as if maintaining them is that expensive really when it comes down to stuff like pumps and belts. Just replaced the water pump and viscous coupling on my 146k E39 528i SE, £260 by an indie and actually it didn't need doing, it was more a piece of mind thing. The belts were done for £70ish a few months back. The parts had done 13 years, not bad at all. I can get the rust sorted for £150 too. 3 years ago I spent £350 on a new radiator and thermostat, normal stuff to keep an engine going. People who are not into cars the way we are on PH may well see a failed water pump etc as a massive job and write the car off. When I look at cars in the future I will not take mileage into consideration at all. Condition and how it's been looked after is far more important. I'm willing to pour my hard earned into a £1000 car because I know that there isn't much I can buy without spending north of £10-£15k that will better it. The UK population has an idiotic approach to "high mileage" cars, it's a shame.
Chap I know is terrified of high mileages, 60k seems to be his point to get rid as it is by then obviously knackered, he rejects cars, even when not spending much that have 40k as being too high on miles, he buys diesels, does 5k a year, pays a lot of money for low mileage VAG stuff then wonders how I can run a 3.0 Porsche doing not much more than 20 to the gallon, it is bizarre the irrational fear some have of high mileage cars and bigger engines, they seem to think that diesel motoring is free, they base all their decisions on book figures and turn a blind eye when it only does 30 odd knocking about, the expensive servicing, potential for huge bills, higher purchase price, higher price off fuel is all sort of overlooked.
Ok, diesels are more economical, and lower mileage cars are generally a better bet than higher mileage ones but we do have to apply some logic and intelligence, spending 20 grand on a diesel A3 isnt a brilliant idea for 5k a year versus a 3 grand Lexus V8 if you want to save money.
Ok, diesels are more economical, and lower mileage cars are generally a better bet than higher mileage ones but we do have to apply some logic and intelligence, spending 20 grand on a diesel A3 isnt a brilliant idea for 5k a year versus a 3 grand Lexus V8 if you want to save money.
Pontoneer said:
J4CKO said:
As per the title, have read about engine that, when stripped after a high mileage still had the honing marks on the bores and no discernible wear.
Will and engine always wear the bores, bearings and valve train by some percentage or once run in, with clean oil and mechanically sympathetic use never actully wear out, they seem to have got the tolerances to a point where they dont wear out in 100k or less these days and it is usually an economic decision to write a car off rather than the engine being dead.
I tend to find that it is poor maintenance that will eventually kill and engine, a cam belt snapping or wear from oil never being changed.
I suppose it depends on the manufacturer, design faults play their part like oil sludging in Saabs or Headgaskets on Rovers, even then a lot of this is down to people getting in and driving the car, year after year without ever looking under the bonnet.
So, how many miles would an engine with no known achilles heel, good maintenance and a careful driver do before wear got to it ?
My Mercedes 300TE-24 had 430,000 miles on it when written off by an uninsured driver ; numerous others in my ownership have gone well beyond 200K without any signs of engine trouble .Will and engine always wear the bores, bearings and valve train by some percentage or once run in, with clean oil and mechanically sympathetic use never actully wear out, they seem to have got the tolerances to a point where they dont wear out in 100k or less these days and it is usually an economic decision to write a car off rather than the engine being dead.
I tend to find that it is poor maintenance that will eventually kill and engine, a cam belt snapping or wear from oil never being changed.
I suppose it depends on the manufacturer, design faults play their part like oil sludging in Saabs or Headgaskets on Rovers, even then a lot of this is down to people getting in and driving the car, year after year without ever looking under the bonnet.
So, how many miles would an engine with no known achilles heel, good maintenance and a careful driver do before wear got to it ?
Million milers are not that uncommon .
I buy my cars just run in with 100K
98elise said:
GroundEffect said:
No. Everything has a durability limit.
This. Good maintenance and mechanical sympathy will prolong the life, but at some point it will wear beyond sensible repair, unless you adopt a triggers broom approach..J4CKO said:
Chap I know is terrified of high mileages, 60k seems to be his point to get rid as it is by then obviously knackered, he rejects cars, even when not spending much that have 40k as being too high on miles, he buys diesels, does 5k a year, pays a lot of money for low mileage VAG stuff then wonders how I can run a 3.0 Porsche doing not much more than 20 to the gallon, it is bizarre the irrational fear some have of high mileage cars and bigger engines, they seem to think that diesel motoring is free, they base all their decisions on book figures and turn a blind eye when it only does 30 odd knocking about, the expensive servicing, potential for huge bills, higher purchase price, higher price off fuel is all sort of overlooked.
Ok, diesels are more economical, and lower mileage cars are generally a better bet than higher mileage ones but we do have to apply some logic and intelligence, spending 20 grand on a diesel A3 isnt a brilliant idea for 5k a year versus a 3 grand Lexus V8 if you want to save money.
Sounds like my next door neighbour! He does always seem to suffer a lot of problems with them when they drop out of manufacturer warranty though so maybe that's why he considers them to be knackered.Ok, diesels are more economical, and lower mileage cars are generally a better bet than higher mileage ones but we do have to apply some logic and intelligence, spending 20 grand on a diesel A3 isnt a brilliant idea for 5k a year versus a 3 grand Lexus V8 if you want to save money.
In my experience of buying modern diesels (mainly Vauxhall, couple of Fords, couple of BMWs) the worst mileage for buying them is between 40-80k. This seems to be the point where the DMF goes pop (just out of warranty), then a short while later for the water pump/alternator/gearbox in the case of the Vauxhalls, injectors for the Fords and then a new turbo on them 70-80k. Yet I've bought several modern diesels with 120k+ on them and other than a split hose, EGR clean out and aircon re-gas they've not cost me anything! My 138k Golf PD130 wants for nothing mechanically! My neighbour can't believe it and says I'm sitting on a ticking time bomb with it!
Meanwhile his 12-plate Golf is currently losing about £2500 per year in depreciation.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff