A question for those involved with race/track cars

[wicz]

Hi there

I'm about to start my final year of studying Motorsport Engineering BEng at UWE Bristol. This year a large proportion of my mark will be down to a final year project.

The brief for this project is fairly open in terms of what I can do, obviously I would like to do something interesting and I would prefer it If I could do something that is relevant.

I don't have a lot of experience and so I'd like to ask those of you who have experience in working for a race team, or even run a race or track car yourselves,if there are any problems you regularly face that I might be able to look at for my project.

Any insight or discussion is welcomed!

Thanks

Max

[Graham]

The most common issue is finding the money

[PhillipM]

^^What he said

[Prancing Hippo]

I would write or call racing teams etc you would be interested in working for and ask them if there is a project you could undertake and share your results with them. God way to prove yourself early and get your foot in the door for a job.

[mrmr96]

I don't know if this is the kind of thing you're thinking of, but my experience of trackdays (and talking to other people about them) is how to keep the brakes on a 'standard' car working well. They often seem to get too hot as they're not designed for track use. Can you think of a solution for that? (Obv pads/fluid but I was thinking of either a temp monitoring system, and/or a cooling system.)

[andylaurence]

I'm only a mile away from UWE. I sprint an ADR and you'd be more than welcome to use my data to quantify results of testing your project if it's a practical project. There's a contact form on the website if you want to get in touch. Happy to talk over a beer or at a test day if you want to come along.

[D_G]

Another issue some people have is finishing with all four wheels still on.....

[andylaurence]

I'd like to have a witty comeback, but as I've lost a wheel in 3 of the last 4 seasons, I've nothing. At least it's not been the same problem each time though!

[Nick1point9]

mrmr96 said:

I don't know if this is the kind of thing you're thinking of, but my experience of trackdays (and talking to other people about them) is how to keep the brakes on a 'standard' car working well. They often seem to get too hot as they're not designed for track use. Can you think of a solution for that? (Obv pads/fluid but I was thinking of either a temp monitoring system, and/or a cooling system.)

mrmr96, That's a fairly good idea, can involve elements of CAD, FEA and CFD in the project and if you steer the project as being "a theoretical investigation" then you won't have to do any validation against actual parts/prototypes. That way, the only cost is software licences which the university should have plenty of (obviously you'd have to use their workstations).

OP, I'd be careful over intellectual property; most universities have the intellectual property for all work that students do, and so there would be very little benefit for any racing team as they would have to do a deal with the university to use any of your work.

Don't worry too much though; my final year project was road car aerodynamics based and I now work in F1 R&D - the important thing is having lots of resources (both intellectual and physical) to ensure you get the best grade.

[Munter]

mrmr96 said:

I don't know if this is the kind of thing you're thinking of, but my experience of trackdays (and talking to other people about them) is how to keep the brakes on a 'standard' car working well. They often seem to get too hot as they're not designed for track use. Can you think of a solution for that? (Obv pads/fluid but I was thinking of either a temp monitoring system, and/or a cooling system.)

I was going to suggest the heat route as well.

I have no idea how close I'm running the brake fluid to it's current boiling point (or even what's on the bottle before it's degraded).

I'd think in general the only temperature info most track day people have is the engine temp gauge. And in a lot of cases that's not a true gauge either.

Wonder if you could mount something in the wheel arch that could monitor brake and tyre surface temperatures and feed back to a simple display in the car and a data logger of some description.

[wicz]

Thank you all for your input, it's very much appreciated!

mrmr96, that idea is very much suitable and others seem to agree thank you! It is looking like a good option to look into As I said it will be much more interesting to me if I am working on a solution to a real problem.

Nick1point9, it is good to hear from someone who has been through the system and is now working in F1 as of course that is the dream for many of us! Thanks for the tips, I have been learning CAD and FEA for the last 2 years and part of this year will be learning CFD so shouldn't be a problem to get hold of the licences.

andylaurence, thanks very much for your kind offer! I will almost definitely be in touch once I have given this project a little more thought!

[Nick1point9]

The way to get a good grade isn't to do some groundbreaking, it about showing a range of skills, even if you don't find anything out! Don't get hung up on working for a race team- lots of race teams are poorly run and to be honest any one worth working with probably won't let you work with them on the terms/basis you want.

Talk to your university's formula student team and see if they have a project you can do, that's probably your best way of doing something motorsport related for your project. If there isn't a team, you can still do a formula student type project, like design and analysis of a formula student [enter car subsystem]. Something as simple as a suspension upright is enough to do a thorough project.


I appreciate that you want to get experience but you will have enough on your plate without having to fit in working around a race team's calendar! Also, term times and race calendars don't mix very well, so the point at which you'll be crazy busy the team will also be at their busiest and when you need to spend time on your project they'll have wound down for the end of the year.

[wicz]

Nick1point9 said:

The way to get a good grade isn't to do some groundbreaking, it about showing a range of skills, even if you don't find anything out! Don't get hung up on working for a race team- lots of race teams are poorly run and to be honest any one worth working with probably won't let you work with them on the terms/basis you want.

Talk to your university's formula student team and see if they have a project you can do, that's probably your best way of doing something motorsport related for your project. If there isn't a team, you can still do a formula student type project, like design and analysis of a formula student [enter car subsystem]. Something as simple as a suspension upright is enough to do a thorough project.


I appreciate that you want to get experience but you will have enough on your plate without having to fit in working around a race team's calendar! Also, term times and race calendars don't mix very well, so the point at which you'll be crazy busy the team will also be at their busiest and when you need to spend time on your project they'll have wound down for the end of the year.

Good advice thank you!
I'm already involved in UWE's Formula Student team and it has been a great experience for me so far. We were literally a brand new team last year and so only had about 10 of us working on the project. What is good and bad about this is that we have had to design a very basic car and split our focus with the business side of things. Probably very useful in terms of life and future skills but not so much in terms of my engineering degree! It makes sense to do a project based on formula student however my design area within the team currently is ancillaries and I wanted to do something more interesting for my project if that makes sense!
What you say about not needing to do something ground breaking, but showing a range of skills is good to know so thank you for that. I've definitely taken this on board and am already more confident about what I should be doing

[Nick1point9]

If you already have an area of the car to work on you can make a project out of that; your project will be incredibly demanding of your time and if you can do your FS work at the same time it means you can do 1 thing to a much higher standard than 2 things! remember the devil is in the detail and going from a 2:1 to a 1st requires a lot more work/time than going from a 2:2 to a 2:1. You could go with the title "Optimization of Formula Student Ancillaries", providing your FS academic adviser is willing to be your project supervisor. Also, you'll make a much better impression on the judges at FS if you have a thesis to back up all your work. Again, remember the devil is in the detail, and the thing that sets the best FS teams apart from the rest (ignoring budget) is that they investigate every possible way of making the car better, so don't feel like your area of the car is "not worthy" in any way.

I don't want to bully you into a project you won't enjoy doing, but think very carefully about how you'll spend your time, final year is incredibly tough and any way to combine elements of your work load will improve your overall grade as you'll have more time to bring everything up to a slightly higher standard.

[Prancing Hippo]

Nick1point9 said:

mrmr96 said:

I don't know if this is the kind of thing you're thinking of, but my experience of trackdays (and talking to other people about them) is how to keep the brakes on a 'standard' car working well. They often seem to get too hot as they're not designed for track use. Can you think of a solution for that? (Obv pads/fluid but I was thinking of either a temp monitoring system, and/or a cooling system.)

mrmr96, That's a fairly good idea, can involve elements of CAD, FEA and CFD in the project and if you steer the project as being "a theoretical investigation" then you won't have to do any validation against actual parts/prototypes. That way, the only cost is software licences which the university should have plenty of (obviously you'd have to use their workstations).

OP, I'd be careful over intellectual property; most universities have the intellectual property for all work that students do, and so there would be very little benefit for any racing team as they would have to do a deal with the university to use any of your work.

Don't worry too much though; my final year project was road car aerodynamics based and I now work in F1 R&D - the important thing is having lots of resources (both intellectual and physical) to ensure you get the best grade.

Yes, sorry, I should have said that any work you do would need to be available in the university library etc and therefore be public knowledge... That said, it could still be of some use as you a still become a free resource for someone and you can build a relationship with a team you otherwise may not have such an opportunity to prove yourself to.