This indecisions bugging me - carbon or titanium
Discussion
Following on from my bike being written off in an accident several weeks I am now on the serious hunt for a replacement frame/bike. The trouble being I am struggling to decide what to choose.
I had been riding a Merida Scultura (carbon) with full Ultegra, lovely bike and it fitted me just right, although it was mass produced Taiwanese plastic it still managed to look fairly classic with good lines and a not to lairy paintjob, just what I like really.
Merida Scultura by raf_gti, on Flickr
My dilemma is now do I go for an all sing, all dancing carbon wonder bike from Italy or do I go for something a little more subtle and dare I say, classier looking.
Intended usage is fast road riding, the odd sportive and enjoyment, I very much like a bike to feel alive and one that encourages you to push harder and harder.
These bikes are the ones which I am seriously considering
Basso Astra by raf_gti, on Flickr
For a modern chunky looking bike it's still surprisingly subtle looking, I think even after 5 years it would still look good.
Condor Leggero by raf_gti, on Flickr
Even subtler still, possibly about as subtle as carbon will ever get, British brand, Italian made, perfect combo?
Enigma Esprit by raf_gti, on Flickr
A very classic looking titanium frame from a British company, put together in China but having seen one up close it's flawless in it's engineering. In five years time it would still look as good as it does today but I'm I ready to give up the ultra modern carbon look just yet? I've also a concern over potential flexiness, however I'm taking one for a test ride next week so should find out once and for all.
So there you have it, three very nice bikes which I believe would give me a lot of happiness, would be interested to hear from other people who had a similar call to make and what you ended up with.
Steve
I had been riding a Merida Scultura (carbon) with full Ultegra, lovely bike and it fitted me just right, although it was mass produced Taiwanese plastic it still managed to look fairly classic with good lines and a not to lairy paintjob, just what I like really.
Merida Scultura by raf_gti, on Flickr
My dilemma is now do I go for an all sing, all dancing carbon wonder bike from Italy or do I go for something a little more subtle and dare I say, classier looking.
Intended usage is fast road riding, the odd sportive and enjoyment, I very much like a bike to feel alive and one that encourages you to push harder and harder.
These bikes are the ones which I am seriously considering
Basso Astra by raf_gti, on Flickr
For a modern chunky looking bike it's still surprisingly subtle looking, I think even after 5 years it would still look good.
Condor Leggero by raf_gti, on Flickr
Even subtler still, possibly about as subtle as carbon will ever get, British brand, Italian made, perfect combo?
Enigma Esprit by raf_gti, on Flickr
A very classic looking titanium frame from a British company, put together in China but having seen one up close it's flawless in it's engineering. In five years time it would still look as good as it does today but I'm I ready to give up the ultra modern carbon look just yet? I've also a concern over potential flexiness, however I'm taking one for a test ride next week so should find out once and for all.
So there you have it, three very nice bikes which I believe would give me a lot of happiness, would be interested to hear from other people who had a similar call to make and what you ended up with.
Steve
I think you're approching this from the wrong perspective: the question you ought to be asking is 'which one should I get first?
That makes the whole exercise much less pressured and therefore more pleasurable.
For the record I'd go for a racy, aero carbon monocoque and a relaxed Ti sportive/audax.
That makes the whole exercise much less pressured and therefore more pleasurable.
For the record I'd go for a racy, aero carbon monocoque and a relaxed Ti sportive/audax.
stop worrying about where things are made. Giant make some of the most advanced carbon fibre frames in the world and make no bones about their origins. In terms of QA and QC, there is a lot to be said for a Giant frame designed, tested and then built in the same factory, compared to a Colnago frame designed in one continent and built to spec in another...
for what its worth, i'd go with the Lynskey Cooper, not much more than the Enigma but far nicer. Subtle as you like and still some of the best craftsmanship you will find in cycling. Have a wander round the cycle show at the NEC next month and see what takes your fancy..... then buy a Lynksey.
for what its worth, i'd go with the Lynskey Cooper, not much more than the Enigma but far nicer. Subtle as you like and still some of the best craftsmanship you will find in cycling. Have a wander round the cycle show at the NEC next month and see what takes your fancy..... then buy a Lynksey.
Rouleur said:
What's your frame budget?
Looks, Cervelos and Times can be classy for a start. Could you stretch to a C59, they're made in Italy if it bothers you?
All in I'm looking at spending £3k, however if I transfer the bulk of my existing components over I can get a nicer frame and not have to worry about buying new wheels etc for the time being.Looks, Cervelos and Times can be classy for a start. Could you stretch to a C59, they're made in Italy if it bothers you?
I've just read back my original post and I didn't realise I'd made such an issue of wear the frames were made, for the record I'm not bothered where they are put together as long as the end result is worth it.
Frame only I'm looking around the £1.5k mark give or take..
Obv, as you're on PH, it goes without saying that you're powerfully built. But are you also a powerful rider? If so, I'd be interested to hear how you get on with a Ti frame. From what I have read (therefore all second hand) it is *possible* to treat Ti so as to give it more stiffness in certain parts of the frame than others. Whether many Ti manufacturers do this is another question.
At £1500 you can get some *really* good CF framesets. Pro Tour level.
At £1500 you can get some *really* good CF framesets. Pro Tour level.
pablo said:
stop worrying about where things are made. Giant make some of the most advanced carbon fibre frames in the world and make no bones about their origins. In terms of QA and QC, there is a lot to be said for a Giant frame designed, tested and then built in the same factory, compared to a Colnago frame designed in one continent and built to spec in another...
Giant are great, but for me, if I was spending a decent amount of money, I'd prefer something handbuilt from the west. I've got a Klein - handmade in USA, and a Condor - handmade in Italy. OP have you considered a custom UK built bike? Here's a list of builders - http://www.framebuilding.com/custom_uk_bicycle_fra...
From your profile I see you're in Lincolnshire, home of Dave Yates, here he is on Rapha's site - http://www.rapha.cc/dave-yates
Just some ideas...
Look http://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/product/53688/LO...
Bianchi http://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/product/47376/Bi...
Colnago http://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/product/51240/Co...
Wilier http://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/product/54141/Wi...
Deda http://www.wiggle.co.uk/dedacciai-super-scuro-fram...
Time http://www.wiggle.co.uk/time-rx-instinct-carbon-fr...
Lynskey http://www.fatbirds.co.uk/6041/products/lynskey-r2...
Look http://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/product/53688/LO...
Bianchi http://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/product/47376/Bi...
Colnago http://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/product/51240/Co...
Wilier http://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/product/54141/Wi...
Deda http://www.wiggle.co.uk/dedacciai-super-scuro-fram...
Time http://www.wiggle.co.uk/time-rx-instinct-carbon-fr...
Lynskey http://www.fatbirds.co.uk/6041/products/lynskey-r2...
wl606 said:
pablo said:
stop worrying about where things are made. Giant make some of the most advanced carbon fibre frames in the world and make no bones about their origins. In terms of QA and QC, there is a lot to be said for a Giant frame designed, tested and then built in the same factory, compared to a Colnago frame designed in one continent and built to spec in another...
Giant are great, but for me, if I was spending a decent amount of money, I'd prefer something handbuilt from the west. I've got a Klein - handmade in USA, and a Condor - handmade in Italy. OP have you considered a custom UK built bike? Here's a list of builders - http://www.framebuilding.com/custom_uk_bicycle_fra...
From your profile I see you're in Lincolnshire, home of Dave Yates, here he is on Rapha's site - http://www.rapha.cc/dave-yates
becuase we all know that the Chinese could never build a rocket or a supersonic fighter jet.......)I still get a Lynskey....
swerni said:
TheFungle said:
swerni said:
No brainer
titanium
Why?
because !!!
You should get a job in advertising titanium
Why?
because !!!
Do elaborate
I don't fancy colouring in for a living
Titanium is more exclusive and more expensive then standard carbon therefore clearly far superior.
Simple man logic.
carbon bikes are like a clitoris these days
My next frame, but can't decide between an MTB or a road frame.
http://www.renovobikes.com/renovo-reviews-and-comm...
wl606 said:
Giant are great, but for me, if I was spending a decent amount of money, I'd prefer something handbuilt from the west. I've got a Klein - handmade in USA, and a Condor - handmade in Italy.
OP have you considered a custom UK built bike? Here's a list of builders - http://www.framebuilding.com/custom_uk_bicycle_fra...
From your profile I see you're in Lincolnshire, home of Dave Yates, here he is on Rapha's site - http://www.rapha.cc/dave-yates
Mr Yates is actually based about a mile from where I work, would eventually love a hand built frame, possibly even made by myself on his course but that is for a future 'sunday bike'. This current dilemma is what to ride on a daily basis.OP have you considered a custom UK built bike? Here's a list of builders - http://www.framebuilding.com/custom_uk_bicycle_fra...
From your profile I see you're in Lincolnshire, home of Dave Yates, here he is on Rapha's site - http://www.rapha.cc/dave-yates
Rouleur said:
Just some ideas...
Look http://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/product/53688/LO...
Bianchi http://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/product/47376/Bi...
Colnago http://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/product/51240/Co...
Wilier http://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/product/54141/Wi...
Deda http://www.wiggle.co.uk/dedacciai-super-scuro-fram...
Time http://www.wiggle.co.uk/time-rx-instinct-carbon-fr...
Lynskey http://www.fatbirds.co.uk/6041/products/lynskey-r2...
Many thanks for that, the Time looks like it could a stunning looking bike, as does the Wilier, certainly ones to consider, not so keen on the current Bianchi frames, they look far too showy for my taste although a matt black Oltre could change my mind!Look http://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/product/53688/LO...
Bianchi http://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/product/47376/Bi...
Colnago http://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/product/51240/Co...
Wilier http://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/product/54141/Wi...
Deda http://www.wiggle.co.uk/dedacciai-super-scuro-fram...
Time http://www.wiggle.co.uk/time-rx-instinct-carbon-fr...
Lynskey http://www.fatbirds.co.uk/6041/products/lynskey-r2...
I am in the same boat and am swaying (heavily) towards Ti. I have considered a 953 build but there are huge supply issues with the tubing at the moment, most frame builders are quoting 4-6 months for a build due to Reynolds not having enough tubing available for the demand, Mercian are still waiting for an order placed at the end of last year!
I have a budget of circa 3-3.5k-ish and have been cogitating over 'what bike' for well over a month now. I recently rode a decent carbon and Ti back to back and have to say that the Ti won hands down in terms of ride, and was actually faster than the carbon (test rode both bikes over the exact same circuit on the same day).
It is difficult to describe how Ti rides and it is very different from Alu or steel but it is stiff, compliant and feels totally 'alive'. Carbon was very nice but in comparison was somehow 'dead', best analogy I can think of would be Ti is like driving an Italian sports car with all the safety features turned off whereas Carbon was like driving a high powered German sports car with all of the driver aids turned on!
I guess it is a matter of personal taste, it is possible to build a Ti bike within a negligible weight margin to Carbon so there is no significant weight saving of one over the other, it really is all about the ride. My advice would be to find a LBS that stock Ti and Carbon then take a couple for a ride, helped make my mind up (although I have to admit I am still going to ride the Trek Domane before parting with any cash).
If you are still considering Ti take a look at Enigma's web site, they have a bike 'configureator' that will give you an idea of weight cost, whatever you do keep us posted - I would be interested in seeing what route you take!
I have a budget of circa 3-3.5k-ish and have been cogitating over 'what bike' for well over a month now. I recently rode a decent carbon and Ti back to back and have to say that the Ti won hands down in terms of ride, and was actually faster than the carbon (test rode both bikes over the exact same circuit on the same day).
It is difficult to describe how Ti rides and it is very different from Alu or steel but it is stiff, compliant and feels totally 'alive'. Carbon was very nice but in comparison was somehow 'dead', best analogy I can think of would be Ti is like driving an Italian sports car with all the safety features turned off whereas Carbon was like driving a high powered German sports car with all of the driver aids turned on!
I guess it is a matter of personal taste, it is possible to build a Ti bike within a negligible weight margin to Carbon so there is no significant weight saving of one over the other, it really is all about the ride. My advice would be to find a LBS that stock Ti and Carbon then take a couple for a ride, helped make my mind up (although I have to admit I am still going to ride the Trek Domane before parting with any cash).
If you are still considering Ti take a look at Enigma's web site, they have a bike 'configureator' that will give you an idea of weight cost, whatever you do keep us posted - I would be interested in seeing what route you take!
MadDad said:
I am in the same boat and am swaying (heavily) towards Ti. I have considered a 953 build but there are huge supply issues with the tubing at the moment, most frame builders are quoting 4-6 months for a build due to Reynolds not having enough tubing available for the demand, Mercian are still waiting for an order placed at the end of last year!
I have a budget of circa 3-3.5k-ish and have been cogitating over 'what bike' for well over a month now. I recently rode a decent carbon and Ti back to back and have to say that the Ti won hands down in terms of ride, and was actually faster than the carbon (test rode both bikes over the exact same circuit on the same day).
It is difficult to describe how Ti rides and it is very different from Alu or steel but it is stiff, compliant and feels totally 'alive'. Carbon was very nice but in comparison was somehow 'dead', best analogy I can think of would be Ti is like driving an Italian sports car with all the safety features turned off whereas Carbon was like driving a high powered German sports car with all of the driver aids turned on!
I guess it is a matter of personal taste, it is possible to build a Ti bike within a negligible weight margin to Carbon so there is no significant weight saving of one over the other, it really is all about the ride. My advice would be to find a LBS that stock Ti and Carbon then take a couple for a ride, helped make my mind up (although I have to admit I am still going to ride the Trek Domane before parting with any cash).
If you are still considering Ti take a look at Enigma's web site, they have a bike 'configureator' that will give you an idea of weight cost, whatever you do keep us posted - I would be interested in seeing what route you take!
"difficult describing how a Ti rides" errrrrrrrrr wrong forum buddy!!!!I have a budget of circa 3-3.5k-ish and have been cogitating over 'what bike' for well over a month now. I recently rode a decent carbon and Ti back to back and have to say that the Ti won hands down in terms of ride, and was actually faster than the carbon (test rode both bikes over the exact same circuit on the same day).
It is difficult to describe how Ti rides and it is very different from Alu or steel but it is stiff, compliant and feels totally 'alive'. Carbon was very nice but in comparison was somehow 'dead', best analogy I can think of would be Ti is like driving an Italian sports car with all the safety features turned off whereas Carbon was like driving a high powered German sports car with all of the driver aids turned on!
I guess it is a matter of personal taste, it is possible to build a Ti bike within a negligible weight margin to Carbon so there is no significant weight saving of one over the other, it really is all about the ride. My advice would be to find a LBS that stock Ti and Carbon then take a couple for a ride, helped make my mind up (although I have to admit I am still going to ride the Trek Domane before parting with any cash).
If you are still considering Ti take a look at Enigma's web site, they have a bike 'configureator' that will give you an idea of weight cost, whatever you do keep us posted - I would be interested in seeing what route you take!
LOL
pablo said:
stop worrying about where things are made. Giant make some of the most advanced carbon fibre frames in the world and make no bones about their origins. In terms of QA and QC, there is a lot to be said for a Giant frame designed, tested and then built in the same factory, compared to a Colnago frame designed in one continent and built to spec in another...
for what its worth, i'd go with the Lynskey Cooper, not much more than the Enigma but far nicer. Subtle as you like and still some of the best craftsmanship you will find in cycling. Have a wander round the cycle show at the NEC next month and see what takes your fancy..... then buy a Lynksey.
Why would the Lynskey be "far nicer" than the Enigma?for what its worth, i'd go with the Lynskey Cooper, not much more than the Enigma but far nicer. Subtle as you like and still some of the best craftsmanship you will find in cycling. Have a wander round the cycle show at the NEC next month and see what takes your fancy..... then buy a Lynksey.
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