A question for london cyclists.
Discussion
THis is NOT an anti-cycling thread.
Im just curious. I commuted home from central London the other day and was pretty horrified at how bad cyclists had got in just a year or so. Just so many of them.
ANyway for any of you who cycle in London- can anyone explain why cyclists think it reasonable to ride to the front at all traffic lights and sit in front of your car?
Am I missing something where it makes sense or there is some kind of advantage?
Obviously I realise that some traffic lights have this cycle area at the front (although I still dont quite see the point) but its certainly not all.
I dont know. I hate these kind of threads because I know it is usually someone moaning about a tiny percentage of cyclists/motorbikes/horseriders/ >insert any group< but in this case ir really was every single cyclist in London.
What is the point?
Im just curious. I commuted home from central London the other day and was pretty horrified at how bad cyclists had got in just a year or so. Just so many of them.
ANyway for any of you who cycle in London- can anyone explain why cyclists think it reasonable to ride to the front at all traffic lights and sit in front of your car?
Am I missing something where it makes sense or there is some kind of advantage?
Obviously I realise that some traffic lights have this cycle area at the front (although I still dont quite see the point) but its certainly not all.
I dont know. I hate these kind of threads because I know it is usually someone moaning about a tiny percentage of cyclists/motorbikes/horseriders/ >insert any group< but in this case ir really was every single cyclist in London.
What is the point?
Generally they get away quicker (in the normal stop-start of London 'blocks' of traffic lights), plus they have way less chance of being wiped out by a car turning left (who may or may not be indicating their intention)
If you have 10 cyclists all waiting at a red do you expect them to line up single file alongside the cars? That would seem more dangerous to me than lining up at the front.
If you have 10 cyclists all waiting at a red do you expect them to line up single file alongside the cars? That would seem more dangerous to me than lining up at the front.
rpguk said:
Where would you position yourself in that situation?I certainly wouldnt push my way to the front and then hold up every car that I have just pushed in front of. I would feel far too selfish and self concious for that.
This is a pretty fair point, and a situation I have found myself in unintentionally. it's impossible to tell from the back of a queue whether the traffic lights have cycle only markings immediately before the light, and it doesnt seem to be very consistant. Perhaps yet more road furniture to tell cyclists when they are coming to a set of lights that there is such an area would stop this from happening? I'd like to think so, but as a daily commuter now I am regularily taken aback by some of the cycling i see.
How do they "push" to the front? Cars are heavy. I've seen cyclists filtering like motorbikes.
As for lack of selfishness, when I commuted by bike in London that was drilled out of me in the first week by all the other road users. Selfish was the only way to stay safe and get anywhere.
Of course, it helped to be travelling as quickly as the cars too (Holloway to Streatham routes), so no holding anyone up.
As for lack of selfishness, when I commuted by bike in London that was drilled out of me in the first week by all the other road users. Selfish was the only way to stay safe and get anywhere.
Of course, it helped to be travelling as quickly as the cars too (Holloway to Streatham routes), so no holding anyone up.
blindswelledrat said:
I'd queue of traffic in the middle of a lane I suppose.
I certainly wouldnt push my way to the front and then hold up every car that I have just pushed in front of. I would feel far too selfish and self concious for that.
So you're happy to sit there, mid-queue, holding up everyone behind you? Selfish bI certainly wouldnt push my way to the front and then hold up every car that I have just pushed in front of. I would feel far too selfish and self concious for that.
d; get to the back.At many lights on my route in London if you come up to the back of a queue of only 10 or so cars it can take two phases of light changes for you to get to the front for the next green. At a busy junction you could be waiting several minutes, rather than one or two mins if you get to the front ready for the next green. Multiply that by several lights/junctions and it can make your journey much longer if you wait in traffic queues.
ewenm said:
How do they "push" to the front? Cars are heavy. I've seen cyclists filtering like motorbikes.
As for lack of selfishness, when I commuted by bike in London that was drilled out of me in the first week by all the other road users. Selfish was the only way to stay safe and get anywhere.
Of course, it helped to be travelling as quickly as the cars too (Holloway to Streatham routes), so no holding anyone up.
^^^As for lack of selfishness, when I commuted by bike in London that was drilled out of me in the first week by all the other road users. Selfish was the only way to stay safe and get anywhere.
Of course, it helped to be travelling as quickly as the cars too (Holloway to Streatham routes), so no holding anyone up.
This.
Just like motorcycles filter, bikes can too. And I wouldn't say cars / motorbikes / bikes are in the same 'race'. When I'm driving my car, particularly in congested areas, I always give room to those who I'm not 'competing' against. It's one thing for a car to push in versus a motorbike or bike making use of the available road space without inconveniencing other road users and/or staying safer.
Though I probably wouldn't have used the word 'selfish', rather just extremely assertive. A timid rider who gets bullied by traffic is more likely to be involved in an accident IMO as they're not seen.
By the way, have you seen the number of cabs who think they're a bike as they sit in the cycle boxes at the front of traffic lights? I always make sure I go to the front of them
ewenm said:
How do they "push" to the front? Cars are heavy. I've seen cyclists filtering like motorbikes.
As for lack of selfishness, when I commuted by bike in London that was drilled out of me in the first week by all the other road users. Selfish was the only way to stay safe and get anywhere.
Of course, it helped to be travelling as quickly as the cars too (Holloway to Streatham routes), so no holding anyone up.
I dont really understand your point. If there is a queue of any type and you go to the front out of turn it is known as "pushing in".As for lack of selfishness, when I commuted by bike in London that was drilled out of me in the first week by all the other road users. Selfish was the only way to stay safe and get anywhere.
Of course, it helped to be travelling as quickly as the cars too (Holloway to Streatham routes), so no holding anyone up.
I guess you are right and it is just selfish. And to be fair, a lot of the cyclists left the lights quick enough to cause no disruption to anyone else (like motorcycles doing the same). BUt a significant percentage toddled off from the lights at snails pace rendering the whole thing highly frustrating. I cant remember feeling as stressed as that journey.
HurryUpAndWait said:
Though I probably wouldn't have used the word 'selfish', rather just extremely assertive.
THinking about it now there were definitely an even split of two types of cyclists. THe assertive healthy cyclists who were quick enough for thier actions not to be a problem, and the equal number of selfish useless cyclists.I guess the flipside is that if the cars didn't push in front of the bike when the traffic is moving, the bike wouldn't then have to push in front of the cars when the traffic stops.
If you've got two modes of transport with similar point-to-point times making up their progress in different sections of the route, they are each going to have to pass each other if all are to make the best progress they could.
If you've got two modes of transport with similar point-to-point times making up their progress in different sections of the route, they are each going to have to pass each other if all are to make the best progress they could.
The box is painted there for a reason, keeps you in view, and avoids being turned into, also at busy lights allows you to actually get out when its green, as often the lights at some junctions can change and only 1 car actually gets out. Motorbikes filter, cyclists do the same.
I wouldn't dream of waiting in a line of traffic, there is no benefit to doing so, and it has many downsides. As detailed above. Also it makes little difference to cars as a few seconds and everyone is in line on the left so cars can pass again.
I wouldn't dream of waiting in a line of traffic, there is no benefit to doing so, and it has many downsides. As detailed above. Also it makes little difference to cars as a few seconds and everyone is in line on the left so cars can pass again.
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