MS2 AFR table looks wrong
Discussion
OK first up, I admit to having only a basic understanding of the MS2 in my SC400.
I've just started looking at the logs though, and I think the car is running too rich - AFR usually around 12.8.
Yesterday I tried the VE Analyse Live Auto Tune to see what it made of the current map, and it all ended up horribly wrong ... I had a back up and the changes were not burnt any way.
As it started to tune it soon got to the point where the engine would barely run ... good job I was in a big car park as it just wouldn't accelerate at all.
I looked at the AFR table, which if my limited knowledge is correct is what the "targets" are for the auto tune and a couple of cells look really wrong.
So couple of questions:
1. Should I change this table so that the "9.0" become "0.9" - seems like an input error to me.
2. Anybody be good enough to look at my Tuner Studio set up to check the settings are correct for my install?
3. I saved a log file yesterday of a mixed run, would someone be kind enough to take a look and give me their view of the current map.
Thanks
I've just started looking at the logs though, and I think the car is running too rich - AFR usually around 12.8.
Yesterday I tried the VE Analyse Live Auto Tune to see what it made of the current map, and it all ended up horribly wrong ... I had a back up and the changes were not burnt any way.
As it started to tune it soon got to the point where the engine would barely run ... good job I was in a big car park as it just wouldn't accelerate at all.
I looked at the AFR table, which if my limited knowledge is correct is what the "targets" are for the auto tune and a couple of cells look really wrong.
So couple of questions:
1. Should I change this table so that the "9.0" become "0.9" - seems like an input error to me.
2. Anybody be good enough to look at my Tuner Studio set up to check the settings are correct for my install?
3. I saved a log file yesterday of a mixed run, would someone be kind enough to take a look and give me their view of the current map.
Thanks
As I understand it, when you use the Autotune function, MS uses your AFR table as it's target values and adjusts the fueling (VE) table until the dosed fuel results in the AFR ratios in your table.
First question is: are you running a wideband lambda?
Yes, your table looks all wrong. For example you would want values around 14.7 (Stoich) at cruise, values should get closer to 12.5 when you are flat out or 13.5 for max torque. If SC menas super-charged then it may be a bit different, some one else might be able to advise, but you'd be looking for minimum of 10's and maximum of around 15.5's?
These values are a ratio, i.e. where you have 0.9 that means a fuel ratio of 0.9:1 so nearly 1:1 air:fuel ratio.
You need to set that AFR table manually before you can use autotune. I'm not at home to send you one, but you should be able to find a reasonable starting point in the manual or in some posts on this forum.
It's no wonder that the car stopped accelerating - you were telling it to bombard the cylinders with fuel - way too much. At least it's better to be too rich than too lean!
First question is: are you running a wideband lambda?
Yes, your table looks all wrong. For example you would want values around 14.7 (Stoich) at cruise, values should get closer to 12.5 when you are flat out or 13.5 for max torque. If SC menas super-charged then it may be a bit different, some one else might be able to advise, but you'd be looking for minimum of 10's and maximum of around 15.5's?
These values are a ratio, i.e. where you have 0.9 that means a fuel ratio of 0.9:1 so nearly 1:1 air:fuel ratio.
You need to set that AFR table manually before you can use autotune. I'm not at home to send you one, but you should be able to find a reasonable starting point in the manual or in some posts on this forum.
It's no wonder that the car stopped accelerating - you were telling it to bombard the cylinders with fuel - way too much. At least it's better to be too rich than too lean!
There is a wideband controller, a Techedge 2J2.
It is a Supercharged car.
Here are the fuel and spark tables:
Other than a bit of a lumpy idle the car runs great - last time it was Dynoed it was over 380bhp and 350ft/lb torque.
Not looking for more power, just think it's running too rich, especially in the cruise, and with my limited understanding that means to me that it's using more fuel than is necessary.
It is a Supercharged car.
Here are the fuel and spark tables:
Other than a bit of a lumpy idle the car runs great - last time it was Dynoed it was over 380bhp and 350ft/lb torque.
Not looking for more power, just think it's running too rich, especially in the cruise, and with my limited understanding that means to me that it's using more fuel than is necessary.
SILICONEKID340HP said:
I cold show you my settings but i can not work out how to save them to my pictures .
I'm using use Snagit to take screenshots and save as jpg, there is a free trial.Alternatively, the authors of Snagit also have Jing - which is free and can also save screenshots to a file.
http://www.techsmith.com/jing.html
sgrimshaw said:
Is that the EGO Control setting?
Looks like my EGO Sensor type is set to disabled.
Yes EGO control. Looks like my EGO Sensor type is set to disabled.
First you should check if you have a wideband lambda sensor installed.
If you do then you should select wideband lambda from the drop down box. You will need to tell tunerstudio what type of controller you are using - think that's in the set-up section.
Then you would need to adapt your AFR table to suit.
If you have a wideband sensor then I would think this would be well worth doing.
Well I know there's one in the car.
Whether it is actually connected to the MS2 is another question.
I don't understand why it's not being used - it is already defined in the setup section.
If I convert the AFR Table above, which appears to be a ratio from 14.7, to actual AFR numbers and enable the Wideband Controller will it actually make any difference to the running of the engine?
I'm assuming that it's the Fuel map that actually does the work, so unless that is changed either manually or using VE Live then nothing changes ... or have I totally missed the point?
Just ordering an AFR gauge for the Wideband, and a lead for the PC too. At least I can then see what the Wideband is reporting.
Whether it is actually connected to the MS2 is another question.
I don't understand why it's not being used - it is already defined in the setup section.
If I convert the AFR Table above, which appears to be a ratio from 14.7, to actual AFR numbers and enable the Wideband Controller will it actually make any difference to the running of the engine?
I'm assuming that it's the Fuel map that actually does the work, so unless that is changed either manually or using VE Live then nothing changes ... or have I totally missed the point?
Just ordering an AFR gauge for the Wideband, and a lead for the PC too. At least I can then see what the Wideband is reporting.
Hi,
your EGO correction (Lambda feedback) is turned off in the settings, so the AFR table isnt doing anything.
If you have a wideband, have a chat with the installer and get it wired back to the MS ECU and configure them both the same (usually 0-5V = 10:20AFR) then you can get them to setup your feedback so it can work in closed loop.
If you need any help setting that up send me a PM, but I have loads of help files on my site and on youtube.
http://www.extraefi.co.uk/ego_sensors.htm
thanks
Phil
your EGO correction (Lambda feedback) is turned off in the settings, so the AFR table isnt doing anything.
If you have a wideband, have a chat with the installer and get it wired back to the MS ECU and configure them both the same (usually 0-5V = 10:20AFR) then you can get them to setup your feedback so it can work in closed loop.
If you need any help setting that up send me a PM, but I have loads of help files on my site and on youtube.
http://www.extraefi.co.uk/ego_sensors.htm
thanks
Phil
daxtojeiro said:
Hi,
your EGO correction (Lambda feedback) is turned off in the settings, so the AFR table isnt doing anything.
If you have a wideband, have a chat with the installer and get it wired back to the MS ECU and configure them both the same (usually 0-5V = 10:20AFR) then you can get them to setup your feedback so it can work in closed loop.
If you need any help setting that up send me a PM, but I have loads of help files on my site and on youtube.
http://www.extraefi.co.uk/ego_sensors.htm
thanks
Phil
Hi Phil,your EGO correction (Lambda feedback) is turned off in the settings, so the AFR table isnt doing anything.
If you have a wideband, have a chat with the installer and get it wired back to the MS ECU and configure them both the same (usually 0-5V = 10:20AFR) then you can get them to setup your feedback so it can work in closed loop.
If you need any help setting that up send me a PM, but I have loads of help files on my site and on youtube.
http://www.extraefi.co.uk/ego_sensors.htm
thanks
Phil
This is the one done by Richard Smith at Dulford ... I think he spoke to you quite a bit during the install.
Sadly, Richard has gone out of business so I am not able to speak to him directly. His top guy, Colin, has started up on his own and he did do some of the work on my car. I'll ask him what he knows when I see him on Sunday at his open day.
I think you have spoken with Colin about other MS installs.
My MS2 is actually one of your V8D Plug N Plays .. in case that makes a difference.
Is the configuration done in Tuner Studio?
I'm off to read the link you posted.
sgrimshaw said:
Hi Phil,
This is the one done by Richard Smith at Dulford ... I think he spoke to you quite a bit during the install.
Sadly, Richard has gone out of business so I am not able to speak to him directly. His top guy, Colin, has started up on his own and he did do some of the work on my car. I'll ask him what he knows when I see him on Sunday at his open day.
I think you have spoken with Colin about other MS installs.
My MS2 is actually one of your V8D Plug N Plays .. in case that makes a difference.
Is the configuration done in Tuner Studio?
I'm off to read the link you posted.
Send me an email with the msq file, I will soon get you sorted out. The wideband lambda will need checking that its wired to the Left Hand O2 sensor plug in the TVR loom, thats the one the PnP ECU uses,This is the one done by Richard Smith at Dulford ... I think he spoke to you quite a bit during the install.
Sadly, Richard has gone out of business so I am not able to speak to him directly. His top guy, Colin, has started up on his own and he did do some of the work on my car. I'll ask him what he knows when I see him on Sunday at his open day.
I think you have spoken with Colin about other MS installs.
My MS2 is actually one of your V8D Plug N Plays .. in case that makes a difference.
Is the configuration done in Tuner Studio?
I'm off to read the link you posted.
thanks
Phil
sgrimshaw said:
There is a wideband controller, a Techedge 2J2.
It is a Supercharged car.
Here are the fuel and spark tables:
Other than a bit of a lumpy idle the car runs great - last time it was Dynoed it was over 380bhp and 350ft/lb torque.
Not looking for more power, just think it's running too rich, especially in the cruise, and with my limited understanding that means to me that it's using more fuel than is necessary.
To be fair i dont know who set those maps up but both are totally crap, the car may run smooth but i bet it drinks the fuel by the gallons!! It is a Supercharged car.
Here are the fuel and spark tables:
Other than a bit of a lumpy idle the car runs great - last time it was Dynoed it was over 380bhp and 350ft/lb torque.
Not looking for more power, just think it's running too rich, especially in the cruise, and with my limited understanding that means to me that it's using more fuel than is necessary.
I'm with Rob ^^
How can it be that you're running the same ignition advance at closed throttle max revs as when you're running boost ? Some of the trends in the fuel map numbers don't look right either. Are you sure you're actually looking at the map your car is running on and not another map that happens to be in the ecu? I won't say too much as obviously I don't know the spec of your car, but much looks wrong at the moment. Giving a few hundred pounds to an MS savvy mapper would be money well spent I reckon.
How can it be that you're running the same ignition advance at closed throttle max revs as when you're running boost ? Some of the trends in the fuel map numbers don't look right either. Are you sure you're actually looking at the map your car is running on and not another map that happens to be in the ecu? I won't say too much as obviously I don't know the spec of your car, but much looks wrong at the moment. Giving a few hundred pounds to an MS savvy mapper would be money well spent I reckon.
The car runs great ...... but as Rob put it ... Drinks fuel!
Full spec:
4.0 L
SC Power supercharger, with intercooler.
Upgraded injectors ... Not sure which ones, will check.
V8 Developments Plug N Play Fuel and Ignition (Ford Coil Packs)
Techedge 2J2 Wideband ...Will check tomorrow if it is connected to the Ecu correctly.
Full decat, straight-through pipes.
Just ordered the LX1 wideband display.
I have plenty of power as noted already, but a little better fuel economy wouldn't hurt
Phil - I'll email you later.
Rob - forgive my ignorance on two counts .. Do you work for V8 developments? .... I see you're in Spalding, how far is that from Lincoln?
Full spec:
4.0 L
SC Power supercharger, with intercooler.
Upgraded injectors ... Not sure which ones, will check.
V8 Developments Plug N Play Fuel and Ignition (Ford Coil Packs)
Techedge 2J2 Wideband ...Will check tomorrow if it is connected to the Ecu correctly.
Full decat, straight-through pipes.
Just ordered the LX1 wideband display.
I have plenty of power as noted already, but a little better fuel economy wouldn't hurt
Phil - I'll email you later.
Rob - forgive my ignorance on two counts .. Do you work for V8 developments? .... I see you're in Spalding, how far is that from Lincoln?
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