Faulty car - reasonable expectations of the dealer?
Discussion
A tale of woe...
A few weeks ago I bought a car from a secondhand dealer. It was not the cheapest example I could have found, but I needed a car pretty urgently, it was local, seemed clean, and drove well. In fact it ran well for about two weeks, and then simply stopped one day and refused to start again... which was rather inconvenient, as I was 120 miles from home at the time, with a car full of holiday gubbins.
Green Flag were called, diagnostics reported faulty camshaft and crankshaft sensors, so they trailered it off to a local camshaft centre. They sourced and fitted a new sensor (old one was full of oil due to a knackered o-ring), which I paid for. However, when I drove it away... it went about half a mile before dying again. I returned home by train with some of my stuff because I had to go back to work. For a week, the camshaft centre were unable to fix the problem, trying new sensors at both ends and eventually passed the car to a local BMW specialist who still have it, and suspect that the timing is now b#ggered (despite it having a cam chain not a belt).
So... I've been in touch with the garage who sold it to me, and asked them to either authorise the repair - whatever it takes - at the garage who currently have it, or trailer it back up to Essex at their cost and fix it themselves. I don't mind which, as I can hop on the train back down to Southampton to pick up a fixed car. Is this fair? I don't see why I should pay to trailer it to the selling garage, it's not my fault the thing broke down.
As I've only had the car a short time I think I still have the right to reject it - how would I go about doing this? I can't exactly park it on their forecourt and demand a refund, because it's 120 miles away. If I'm rejecting it it's their problem to go and get the thing.
What does the hive mind think?
A few weeks ago I bought a car from a secondhand dealer. It was not the cheapest example I could have found, but I needed a car pretty urgently, it was local, seemed clean, and drove well. In fact it ran well for about two weeks, and then simply stopped one day and refused to start again... which was rather inconvenient, as I was 120 miles from home at the time, with a car full of holiday gubbins.
Green Flag were called, diagnostics reported faulty camshaft and crankshaft sensors, so they trailered it off to a local camshaft centre. They sourced and fitted a new sensor (old one was full of oil due to a knackered o-ring), which I paid for. However, when I drove it away... it went about half a mile before dying again. I returned home by train with some of my stuff because I had to go back to work. For a week, the camshaft centre were unable to fix the problem, trying new sensors at both ends and eventually passed the car to a local BMW specialist who still have it, and suspect that the timing is now b#ggered (despite it having a cam chain not a belt).
So... I've been in touch with the garage who sold it to me, and asked them to either authorise the repair - whatever it takes - at the garage who currently have it, or trailer it back up to Essex at their cost and fix it themselves. I don't mind which, as I can hop on the train back down to Southampton to pick up a fixed car. Is this fair? I don't see why I should pay to trailer it to the selling garage, it's not my fault the thing broke down.
As I've only had the car a short time I think I still have the right to reject it - how would I go about doing this? I can't exactly park it on their forecourt and demand a refund, because it's 120 miles away. If I'm rejecting it it's their problem to go and get the thing.
What does the hive mind think?
Your first point of contact in such a situation should be where you bought it. By involving a third party (which is understandable in the circumstances) it makes it much more difficult for you. The selling garage does not know the other garage and can just argue they've messed it up.
They are within their rights to ask you to bring it back to them but now someone else has played around with it they probably don't have to do too much.
They are within their rights to ask you to bring it back to them but now someone else has played around with it they probably don't have to do too much.
Gizmoish said:
It's an 03, just over 70k showing.
They've said that it's my responsibility to get it back to them; I'm not sure if that's tenable?
You should've come to see me Giz I'd have looked after you.They've said that it's my responsibility to get it back to them; I'm not sure if that's tenable?
Getting the car to the dealer is up to you.
Sounds like a fair bit of work is required to bring the car up to retail standard. If the car had over 100k on I could see a bit of a struggle but it hasn't so works in your favour.
You need to speak to the service leader and DP where you bought it from and see if they'll either fix the car up to retail standard or buy it back. You shouldn't be spending any big money on a recent purchase.
I'd be wanting to see the prep sheet from the healthcheck to see if anything was highlighted about this beforehand and if so what was done about it. However, I think it's unlikely you'll get to see that.
OK, they've refused to allow the garage where it actually is to work on it, so I'll need to get it trailered to the seller's "approved" garage. I think it's a bit off personally that I need to be out of pocket as well as inconvenienced by the thing breaking down, but if that's the way it is then fine.
Gizmoish said:
OK, they've refused to allow the garage where it actually is to work on it, so I'll need to get it trailered to the seller's "approved" garage. I think it's a bit off personally that I need to be out of pocket as well as inconvenienced by the thing breaking down, but if that's the way it is then fine.
It could be worse, its an 03 car, I don't think they'd have a big problem telling you to F.O.slightly O/T as you're not really trying to fault find here but surely losing cam and crank sensor at the same time implies an electrical fault rather than "oh the timings borkend 
"
Not sure how the sensor it's self can get "full of oil" as they're usually single piece moulded plastic.
Or am I talking b
cks?
"Not sure how the sensor it's self can get "full of oil" as they're usually single piece moulded plastic.
Or am I talking b
cks?doogz said:
You should have spoken to them first, before you had anyone else work on the car. You must surely know that?
And they'd have said "get it up here". I'd have paid for a relay from Green Flag. The Green Flag van would have turned up, done a diagnostic, "found" it was only a sensor and suggested taking it to a local garage as it would be cheaper... Think it through.If it was clearly something serious, of course I'd have spoken to the garage in the first place.
StottyZr said:
It could be worse, its an 03 car, I don't think they'd have a big problem telling you to F.O.
Remind me not to buy a car from you. The dealer does have an obligation to honour their warranty, and much as I hate quoting laws, even for a used car the dealer must ensure that it is fit for purpose. Gizmoish said:
Remind me not to buy a car from you. The dealer does have an obligation to honour their warranty, and much as I hate quoting laws, even for a used car the dealer must ensure that it is fit for purpose.
But now you've had someone else look at it they have an easy get out because it could have been the repair garage that ballsed it up.Tbh I'm afraid (and I understand why you tried to sort it locally) you're going to have to pay for it to be transported and then argue about it when they've had a look.
Bill said:
Gizmoish said:
Remind me not to buy a car from you. The dealer does have an obligation to honour their warranty, and much as I hate quoting laws, even for a used car the dealer must ensure that it is fit for purpose.
But now you've had someone else look at it they have an easy get out because it could have been the repair garage that ballsed it up.Tbh I'm afraid (and I understand why you tried to sort it locally) you're going to have to pay for it to be transported and then argue about it when they've had a look.
And no mistake.Gizmoish said:
OK, they've refused to allow the garage where it actually is to work on it, so I'll need to get it trailered to the seller's "approved" garage. I think it's a bit off personally that I need to be out of pocket as well as inconvenienced by the thing breaking down, but if that's the way it is then fine.
You really need to check up on your rights and the dealers rights. Because from what you've said so far you are not in the right. Sometimes st happens and sometimes you just have to man up and accept it, rather than try and blame others.Have a look here, I think it'll help you a lot: http://www.oft.gov.uk/business-advice/treating-cus... and here: http://www.oft.gov.uk/business-advice/treating-cus...
Gizmoish said:
Remind me not to buy a car from you. The dealer does have an obligation to honour their warranty, and much as I hate quoting laws, even for a used car the dealer must ensure that it is fit for purpose.
On a 10 year old car, their legal liability is pretty minimal. Let's be honest here, if you want reliable you buy a 2 year old Aygo, not a 10 year old BMW.The law accepts that an older used car will have more faults, be more unreliable and generally not as good as a newer one. The comeback on a car over 10 years old and/or 100k is pretty small.
scarble said:
slightly O/T as you're not really trying to fault find here but surely losing cam and crank sensor at the same time implies an electrical fault rather than "oh the timings borkend "
Not sure how the sensor it's self can get "full of oil" as they're usually single piece moulded plastic.
Or am I talking bcks?
The camchain has gone all stretchy and horrible, this has resulted in the timing going off and throwing up the codes."Not sure how the sensor it's self can get "full of oil" as they're usually single piece moulded plastic.
Or am I talking b
cks?The even worse news is the camchain is on the back of the engine meaning the engine has to come out.
Somebody is going to be picking up a very big bill.
300bhp/ton said:
Sometimes st happens and sometimes you just have to man up and accept it, rather than try and blame others.
I'm not getting into an argument, but I'm fascinated by what part of my misfortune you don't consider "manning up and accepting it". I'm trying to establish what is fair to expect of the dealer, not how much I can screw them for, after all. t happens and sometimes you just have to man up and accept it, rather than try and blame others.Gizmoish said:
I'm not getting into an argument, but I'm fascinated by what part of my misfortune you don't consider "manning up and accepting it". I'm trying to establish what is fair to expect of the dealer, not how much I can screw them for, after all.
Have a look here, I think it'll help you a lot: http://www.oft.gov.uk/business-advice/treating-cus... and here: http://www.oft.gov.uk/business-advice/treating-cus...Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff