A question of life and death

[Veeayt]

So I fell in love recently with Fiat 500s. Initially wanted to buy the original car, which I like the most, but since I need everyday city runaround, it is for now out of question. I am able to buy a slightly used Abarth Esseesse or a new 0.9 Twinair model for roughly the same money. Now hold your horses those who like POWAARRR, because there's enough muscle in my current stable. I appreciate Twinair for its clever camless trickery, its low _petrol_ consumption and above all, its ability to deliver simple joys of driving. It's also 115kilos lighter than the Abarth and only 45 torques down despite its humble origin, and twice less thirstier. I just feel I would miss something compared to Esseesse. What do you think?

One more question - can you fully disengage an ESP on these Fiats? If I remember correctly, Evo says you can't. Its critical, since I, like you, don't like anything interrupting my driving pleasure, and it seems a majority of cars on sale are equipped with it.

Thanks

[Triumph Man]

Veeayt said:

Twinair for its clever camless trickery...

The Twinair doesn't have a camshaft?! Anyone got a link to how that works?

ETA is that even possible?

ETA again, just read something about it. Makes sense now.

And in response to your question OP, maybe the Twinair would be a nice thing to have, with that twin cylinder thrum. I don't know, but it just seems quite, well, honest. I'd love to try one.

Edited by Triumph Man on Friday 7th September 13:53

Edited by Triumph Man on Friday 7th September 13:54

[The Wookie]

Triumph Man said:

The Twinair doesn't have a camshaft?! Anyone got a link to how that works?

ETA is that even possible?

ETA again, just read something about it. Makes sense now.

Edited by Triumph Man on Friday 7th September 13:53

Technically it does have a cam, but it Only uses the full profile at full load and uses it sort of like a pump in other modes

[Triumph Man]

The Wookie said:

Triumph Man said:

The Twinair doesn't have a camshaft?! Anyone got a link to how that works?

ETA is that even possible?

ETA again, just read something about it. Makes sense now.

Edited by Triumph Man on Friday 7th September 13:53

Technically it does have a cam, but it Only uses the full profile at full load and uses it sort of like a pump in other modes

Yeah I found that out, interesting solution.

[Riley Blue]

This is a question of life and death?

[Veeayt]

Riley Blue said:

This is a question of life and death?

For me - yes. Well, almost. I need a city car quickly.

Twinair - how it works http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhDkNhhVbfk

[PumpkinSteve]

Veeayt said:

For me - yes. Well, almost. I need a city car quickly.

Twinair - how it works http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhDkNhhVbfk

The press report that the fuel economy is terrible though, 30mpg I've heard.

[Caulkhead]

Easy choice for me, the twinair.

As James May said, small Italian cars need small petrol engines that you can rev until the valves pop through the bonnet. If you were constantly out of town the Essesse would be good, but with your circumstances I'd take the twin.

[Caulkhead]

PumpkinSteve said:

Veeayt said:

For me - yes. Well, almost. I need a city car quickly.

Twinair - how it works http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhDkNhhVbfk

The press report that the fuel economy is terrible though, 30mpg I've heard.

CAR magazine drove it flat out wringing every last rev out of it in the Dolomite mountains and managed to get it down to 34.4mpg. I'm sure anyone else not testing it in the mountains would do quite a bit better.

[Rakoosh]

Riley Blue said:

This is a question of life and death?

Yes it is - as the OP also asked how to disable the ESP...!

Veeayt said:

One more question - can you fully disengage an ESP on these Fiats? If I remember correctly, Evo says you can't. Its critical,

On track I can maybe see why.

Off it really? Why would you?

[RWD cossie wil]

Rakoosh said:

On track I can maybe see why.

Off it really? Why would you?

To have a bit of fun?

[Rakoosh]

RWD cossie wil said:

To have a bit of fun?

Well I disagree that having ESP switched on stops you from having 'fun'. I've driven an abarth 500 and it was bags of fun and I never once thought to myself 'hmm this car is so tame and lame if only I could turn off the ESP'.

Also he says he needs a city 'runaround':

Veeayt said:

but since I need everyday city runaround,

Finally he mentions he has 'plenty of horsepower' in his stable already or some other yackity yack.

So I have to ask the question - is it really 'critical' to find out how to turn off the ESP????

[Mastodon2]

I can't see why you'd want to turn the TC off in an urban runabout, but even if you can't can the mighty 85bhp engine really need TC? I can't imagine it's going to intrusive since the wheels will not often be breaking traction.

[RWD cossie wil]

Lift off oversteer?

[em177]

And the award for worst thread title of the year goes to.....

[Beefmeister]

You should consider that the TwinAir claims of 70mpg are almost completely unrealistic. What Car did their TrueMpg thing using actual day to day driving ins town as these cars are meant for and it barely managed 45mpg. A chap I know with an Abarth SS has averaged 34 over 12 months, so there's not that much in it.

Get the TwinAir for the low tax, cool sound and interesting tech, but not for the mpg.

If I were doing town driving I'd get the TwinAir, mainly because the ride is much better than the Abarth.

[AC43]

Caulkhead said:

Easy choice for me, the twinair. As James May said, small Italian cars need small petrol engines that you can rev until the valves pop through the bonnet.

This is so correct you've made me want to buy one as well.

[otolith]

Mastodon2 said:

I can't see why you'd want to turn the TC off in an urban runabout, but even if you can't can the mighty 85bhp engine really need TC? I can't imagine it's going to intrusive since the wheels will not often be breaking traction.

The stability control is a lot more than traction control, though - it will intervene to trim under or oversteer by nipping the brakes on individual wheels.

Traction control I find can be pretty intrusive, because generally I would prefer to deal with a bit of slip by modulating the throttle myself, not by by having the engine bog down completely. Maybe I've just not come across a really bad system (or perhaps I've only driven really good ones hard enough to notice), but I've found that the stability control side of things only generally intervenes if you are driving badly - clumsy control inputs especially.