BMW M5 (F10) - Manual..

[JayTee94]

Hello, hope you are all having a good weekend.

While looking on a car website this morning I notice the US spec F10 M5 gets the manual gearbox. Now I know we have had a topic or two about the E60 M5 having a manual gearbox for the US market in the past - but this is new to the F10 examples. Is there something we do not know, or a hidden market unknown to us? It also raises another question, do you mind that the US buyers have a manual if the seven speed 'box on our shores is adequate enough. Looking deeper, they do not offer it on the BMW M6 which I find strange. I think the one reason why they offer three pedals are that if a tuning company were to get hold of them it would be easier to modify than having a complicated seven speed 'box - but I may be wrong..

What are your thoughts?

[Arun_D]

With the E60 threads, it was mentioned the manuals were pretty dire anyway, due to some sort of clutch damper in the system so people won't make duff changes? Don't know how true this is.

[ArtVandelay]

The Americans seem to go for "stick" shifts in their performance cars. Sadly it seems that the bigger sellers here are DSG or Tiptronic style boxes. As most American cars appear to be automatic, I guess manual is actually rarer and therefore more sought after. Manual = sporty.

It's not uncommon for performance cars to be offered without a manual option now. The Nissan GT-R doesn't have a manual option, F458 Ferrari etc don't have manual options but their predecessors did.

A good automatic or paddleshift box can be fun to drive but I'm still hankering after a manual. 90% of the time an auto is acceptable for what you need, it's just that 10% when you want to really drive the car and feel involved with it that you miss a manual gearbox, IMO at least. Even in bloody manual mode my car changes gear for you if you go near the red line

[davepoth]

Arun_D said:

With the E60 threads, it was mentioned the manuals were pretty dire anyway, due to some sort of clutch damper in the system so people won't make duff changes? Don't know how true this is.

Clutch Delay Valves have been fitted to manual BMWs for ages.

In the USA, manual gearboxes are seen as important in properly "sporting" cars. BMW looked at it for other markets and there simply wasn't the demand from the people who bought them new to go to the trouble of offering them.

[JayTee94]

I know that the majority over here are used to and/or prefer PDK/DSG/R-Tronic etc etc, but I am suprised they do not offer it even as an option. Is there any reason they did not offer the US citizens a manual on the new BMW M6?

Another thing, with the OP I did not mean that the US did not deserve a manual as I know of many people that would love a stick in thier Acura, Infiniti and Saturns. I was just curious as to why they thought the need to provide a different setup for the US market. Is it only the US that get a manual F10 M5?

[Wolands Advocate]

davepoth said:

Clutch Delay Valves have been fitted to manual BMWs for ages.

What does it do? And if all BMWs have it, why do people fuss over it in the E60 M5. I'd heard something about massive axle tramp?

[TheDoggingFather]

If they do it for the yanks they should really offer it as an option for here. oh BMW FFS do a bloody M5 touring!!!!

[StottyZr]

Wolands Advocate said:

davepoth said:

Clutch Delay Valves have been fitted to manual BMWs for ages.

What does it do? And if all BMWs have it, why do people fuss over it in the E60 M5. I'd heard something about massive axle tramp?

Wiki said:

A clutch delay valve is an automotive component added to the clutch system of an automobile to standardize clutch engagement speed. Its purpose is to engage the drive train of an automobile without introducing shock to the drive train components by engaging too quickly. By preventing drive train shock, CDVs also prevent an automobile's balance from being upset, which aids in handling characteristics.

Easy to remove the CDV if it bothers you. Its a non-issue.

[Baryonyx]

Arun_D said:

With the E60 threads, it was mentioned the manuals were pretty dire anyway, due to some sort of clutch damper in the system so people won't make duff changes? Don't know how true this is.

The clutch delay valve can make the shifts feel a bit baulky. They're best off removed, IMO, but I'm not sure if that is possible on the M5. I think it's a shame we didn't get the choice of a manual one here, but I suspect most M5's are sold to rich businessmen first and foremost and end up in the hands of driving enthusiasts later in life.

Since the rich businessmen are the first buyer, and the one paying the cash to BMW, the auto would be their obvious choice. They're likely not fussed about changing gear, or extracting the performance of the car down some thrilling fast A roads and winding B roads, they just want everyone to see the M5 badge as they cruise the M25 to the City.

[JayTee94]

TheDoggingFather said:

If they do it for the yanks they should really offer it as an option for here. oh BMW FFS do a bloody M5 touring!!!!

I have heard that there are no plans to make the M5 Estate as there is not enough demand, although a recent article on this site begs to differ..

Anyway, this is the closest you could get:



Alpina!

[Wolands Advocate]

Well, the last M5 and the current M5 seem to be rather different beasts. The E60 was a way loopier proposition and therefore probably of limited appeal to your average fast wagon buyer. The F10 seems to be a much more rounded and less savage beast, and therefore probably a much better estate car candidate than its predecessor.