How do you make it fast?

[XM5ER]

Now that I am in the final throws of sorting out the family transport issues, I'm getting a hankering for something I can hoon about in.

Top of the list is an old Elise. I love 'em.

Thing is I know that after 3 months I will want it to go faster, the question is how?

I'd be looking for over 200bhp, what are the options for around £5,000?

[bogie]

check out www.dvapower.com - he will be able to meet your requirements 200bhp is quite common normally aspirated, but depending on final spec could cost up to £7K...getting more is difficult and to be honest not very reliable - rebuilds every 20K miles etc are not unheard of. Most reliable for daily use, normally aspirated is generally considered to be around 180-90bhp with forged bottom end (you will have to rev to 7500+ to make the power)

other than that its:

Supercharged to 230bhp by www.turbotechnics.com - £8-9K

Turboed by www.bbr-gti.com - 220bhp for about £10K

Honda conversion by Blink or Maidstone - £10-12K for 200-220bhp

Audi 1.8T conversion from www.auto-teknix.com for £7-10K for 250-300bhp

starting from scratch again (have had a TT230 for last 30K miles) I would probably go with the Audi lump conversion - bulletproof engine, 250bhp easily for 100K miles for £7K ...another 50bhp if you change turbos and add extra intercooling etc.

Dont forget to spend a day or 2 on an airfield doing some training/familiarisation with the car - www.1stlotus.com is the best VFM training out there - even if you are used to rear wheel drive, having the engine in the back, and being a very light car with 200bhp it can catch you out...especially in the wet. A few hundred on a couple of days training will give you the confidence to push to the limit...but also recognise when you are approaching the limit.

Its all too often that you see reports of Elises being pranged, especially in the first few months of ownership as the confidence builds up ...my father in law works at a Lotus bodyshop...during the winter last year there were at least 2 Elises per week coming in ....usual stuff 'oh it just spun on me' and 'must be the tyres' or 'I was only doing 30mph accelerating on a damp roundabout'

>> Edited by bogie on Friday 20th August 13:44

[thub]

Keep your eyes open for news on the Duratec conversion as well. Target price was £6k iirc but there are still some development issues I believe.

[bogie]

oh yeah - forgot about the Duratec...its not that heavily publicised and I think theres only a couple of cars out there at the mo...but should be good VFM

[XM5ER]

Thanks Bogie! I was aware of some of them particularly the stupidly expensive BBR turbos (BTW does anyone have a a copy of EVO with the test of Adrian Newhey's 300bhp Elise?)

I wasnt aware of the VAG conversions, what does the engine weigh?

Has anyone dropped an MR2T engine in?

Has anyone on here done the Hayabusa conversion ( www.holeshotracing.co.uk ).

Thub, I was thinking the duratec might be good option as its even lighter than the k series, didnt know anyone was doing it.

Bogie, I hear what you are saying about driving a mid engine car with a shit load of power, I intend to go on several track days well before uprating it and in truth I may end up leaving it alone and building a bike engined Caterfield alike.

[dannylt]

I hadn't heard anyone claiming the Duratec was lighter than the K-series. I don't think it's much heavier though. The VAG is considerably heavier with it's cast iron block I thought?

[bogie]

XM5ER said:

Thanks Bogie! I was aware of some of them particularly the stupidly expensive BBR turbos (BTW does anyone have a a copy of EVO with the test of Adrian Newhey's 300bhp Elise?) I wasnt aware of the VAG conversions, what does the engine weigh? it adds about 30Kg overall...but weight distribution is the same Has anyone dropped an MR2T engine in? nope - not an easy fit Has anyone on here done the Hayabusa conversion ( www.holeshotracing.co.uk ). Gear at Elise parts had one check out www.eliseparts.com - not a commercial offering though Thub, I was thinking the duratec might be good option as its even lighter than the k series, didnt know anyone was doing it. yep - Eliseparts again...however to get 200bhp out of one you are in the same boat as the K series - £1000's of pounds of mods to make the power...and then a hihgly tuned engine Bogie, I hear what you are saying about driving a mid engine car with a shit load of power, I intend to go on several track days well before uprating it and in truth I may end up leaving it alone and building a bike engined Caterfield alike.

yep - it may well be cheaper to have 2 cars !

Sinclaires are also working on a 2L Cyclone V8 conversion (based on 2 1L motorbike engines) should be good for 300bhp and 190lb torque...very light too...but price will be unreal - maybe £15-20K by the time its finished ! ...will be the 1st V8 Elise though - should sound good

[DanH]

Best bet by far is to buy a 2nd hand turbo technics car or maybe a honda engined one.

Duratec and Audi are more of a gamble as they aren't proven yet, and only on a couple of development cars. There aren't that many hondas out there either to be fair.

The turbo option isn't at all popular, and the only car I knew of with it had it all removed as it was very problematic apparently.

[pantelis]

dannylt said:

The VAG is considerably heavier with it's cast iron block I thought?

50 kilos acording to the web site.

www.auto-teknix.co.uk/audi-conv.htm

[XM5ER]

dannylt said:

I hadn't heard anyone claiming the Duratec was lighter than the K-series. I don't think it's much heavier though. The VAG is considerably heavier with it's cast iron block I thought?

There was a donor engine review in Which kit car mag last month, the duratec is 97kg , the K series is 100kg. Also of interest was the little 1.6 zetc unit which weighs in at 81kg and can be tuned up to 200bhp quite easily (aparently). I think mountune and shaw speed tune 'em up.

In fact just got the mag out, SB Developments will get 200bhp from a duratec for £2000.

[bogie]

"In fact just got the mag out, SB Developments will get 200bhp from a duratec for £2000"

I take it thats on top of the normal conversion price of sticking a std Duratec in there - about £5-7K?

whichever way you look at it...theres no cheap way to a 2L or less engine pushing 200bhp + into the back of an Elise

[XM5ER]

bogie said:

"In fact just got the mag out, SB Developments will get 200bhp from a duratec for £2000" I take it thats on top of the normal conversion price of sticking a std Duratec in there - about £5-7K? whichever way you look at it...theres no cheap way to a 2L or less engine pushing 200bhp + into the back of an Elise

Until people start binning the Toyota powered Elises!

[bogie]

I wouldnt recommend the 1.8 Toyota lump as an aftermarket conversion....it drives just like a VHPD K series - the same as a std 120bhp car until 6K revs, then a 2K rev powerband .....the only thing its got going for it is reliability IMO.

Im not saying the new Exige or 111R are bad cars - they are great...very quick, nice to drive etc.....but the headline 190bhp figure is not so exciting in them when the car weighs 150Kg more ...its kinda like tweaked up S1 111S performance.

The Honda lump is generally 200-220bhp (maybe a bit more with some tweaks) ...but its 30lb/ft up on torque which makes a good difference for a road engine...of course any of the forced induction conversions are in another league for flexibility.

So I guess with a £5K budget for a w/e or trackday car Id get 180bhp nice n reliable from DVA for a few grand, then sort the suspension, harnesses and sticky rubber...you'll have a quick car then for trackday use

[DanH]

I'm still not really convinced that 180bhp is particularly reliable. Not sure I'd bother going to a high state of NA tune.

[XM5ER]

There is an article on tuning the k series in this months Practical Performance Car (now there is a contadiction in terms). Its quite a good one.

I think you might be right with the 180bhp figure, it still gives about 250bhp/tonne. Enough to play with for a while I suppose.

Silly question, does the Rover T series fit or is it a bit big?

[bogie]

dosent fit - probably coud be made to fit, but by the time youve finished it will cost more than the other methods above.

Over the years just about everything worthwhile has been tried with the Elise - you now have more choice than ever before...its just how big is your wallet?

for £2-3K you could have a nice 160bhp...and at the other end of the scale for £15-20K you can have a 300bhp 2Litre V8 that revs to 15k

..best of sticking to the tried and tested stuff, rather than try to re-invent the wheel IMO

I read the article by Dave Walker too - very good overview on what can be achieved.

If you want to go normally aspirated then Dave Andrews of DVAPower is your man....if you fancy forced induction then see Bernard at Auto-Teknix.

If my Supercharged engine goes bang in the the next 20K miles I think I will have to have a 300bhp Audi 1.8 dropped in there - will up the weight to approx 840Kg on my car (still a lot lighter than a 111R or Exige) but with 300bhp and 300 lb torque it should be pretty interesting

[XM5ER]

Indeed, a spot of Noble baiting would be fun.

[dannylt]

Pah - 200bhp is plenty to be Noble baiting on a track with some corners

[bogie]

yep - 200bhp in the right hands is indeed enough to keep up with most things on track ...lets face it, there arnt that many tracks with huge long straights that you can really make the extra top end that cars like Nobles and GT3s have, count in their favour.

[XM5ER]

It would be interesting to see how Rover have packaged their turbocharged K series (only 150bhp I know), and to see if it could be tweaked.