Are you watching your films correctly?
Discussion
People are watching their films with wrong settings according to film directors. Does not surprise me to be honest.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19650769
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19650769
Quite agree. I setup my own business 8 years ago 'Get Connected' to install tv equipment correctly because as a delivery installer I would see how wrongly people had there equipment incorrectly setup and connected. I thought "I can do this for myself" and I've not looked back. HDMI set to 576, screen size set to 4:3 on Sky boxes, dvds etc when customer has a 16:9 set and dnr settings switched off so the picture resolution is awful and people just put up with it and carry on. Basically I find people have no idea about tv equipment today and just leave it set as it came out the box.
Still, means I can make a very good living and play with all sorts of tv equipment.
Still, means I can make a very good living and play with all sorts of tv equipment.
Edited by AerialAndy on Thursday 20th September 19:38
bbc said:
Retailers Argos and Richer Sounds have also backed the efforts.
"The default settings of most TVs are optimised for shop conditions and not for viewing content at home," explained Phil Hinton, editor of AVForums.
So perhaps Argos and Richer Sounds should encourage manufacturers to set them up for the customer, rather than the retailer. "The default settings of most TVs are optimised for shop conditions and not for viewing content at home," explained Phil Hinton, editor of AVForums.
Speaks volumes about how arse about face the industry is IMO. Expecting consumers to know the finer points of AV settings is stupid until you present them and explain them in plain english at a supplier and manufacturer level.
It goes without saying that manufacturers and a couple of retailers are on board with this campaign, they don't have to do anything other than say they endorse it!
It's much easier and cheaper for them to do that than it is to actually sit down and work out ways to improve the experience and make it easier for consumers to get the most out of their TV.
One look at most TV settings menus and their horrid user interfaces heavily laden with technical terms, or the product manuals crammed full of multilingual generic prose is enough to suggest that most manufacturers couldn't care less about presenting stuff like this easily so people will get the most out of it.
Expecting others to be as obsessed with finding the holy grail of settings in the bowels of the menus on a telly is just as stupid as expecting the telly to be setup perfectly straight out of the box.
It goes without saying that manufacturers and a couple of retailers are on board with this campaign, they don't have to do anything other than say they endorse it!
It's much easier and cheaper for them to do that than it is to actually sit down and work out ways to improve the experience and make it easier for consumers to get the most out of their TV.
One look at most TV settings menus and their horrid user interfaces heavily laden with technical terms, or the product manuals crammed full of multilingual generic prose is enough to suggest that most manufacturers couldn't care less about presenting stuff like this easily so people will get the most out of it.
Expecting others to be as obsessed with finding the holy grail of settings in the bowels of the menus on a telly is just as stupid as expecting the telly to be setup perfectly straight out of the box.
576i was the early hd standard. Some equipment come set to this as it will connect to all hd tv's even old dvi connections. All large screen tv's are 1080i/p these days so a hd sat or dvd player etc set to 576i will send a poorer quality picture then the tv can handle and reproduce. HDMI setting can be adjusted in picture setting menu. Set it to the best setting the player can do for best picture.
Can't see how manufacturers can set any equipment for you as everyone has different components in there systems including cables (amount of people I see who have used the basic cable supplied in the box and have wavy interference lines on the picture) and room layout/conditions so really the middle setting with basic features switched on to suit most systems. It's down to the consumers to setup or get someone to do it for there system requirements.
Can't see how manufacturers can set any equipment for you as everyone has different components in there systems including cables (amount of people I see who have used the basic cable supplied in the box and have wavy interference lines on the picture) and room layout/conditions so really the middle setting with basic features switched on to suit most systems. It's down to the consumers to setup or get someone to do it for there system requirements.
I certainly am. But then as an ex-moderator on AVForums I'd hope so too.
I do agree though that unless you enjoy this type of timkering it can be quite a daunting subject and TVs coming from the box setup completely wrong doesn't help in the slightest.
I think it may have been just a local thing to my nearest Richer Sounds but when I bought a TV from them the guy I spoke to was an AV Geek and had setup the TVs on display much better than you'd usually find in a store which I appreciated.
I do agree though that unless you enjoy this type of timkering it can be quite a daunting subject and TVs coming from the box setup completely wrong doesn't help in the slightest.
I think it may have been just a local thing to my nearest Richer Sounds but when I bought a TV from them the guy I spoke to was an AV Geek and had setup the TVs on display much better than you'd usually find in a store which I appreciated.
AerialAndy said:
Can't see how manufacturers can set any equipment for you
Nor do I. My point is they could make it a damn sight easier if they gave even a whiff of a damn about it. I'm not suggesting they're obliged to educate the consumer market about becoming ISF calibration experts en masse, merely that they could make it a significantly easier for the end user to get improved results from their equipment.At this point, even a flyer with a 'hey, go to our website and we'll show you how to make this TV even more awesome' written on it would suffice.
Apple turned my old man from technophobe phone dodger, to iPhone whizz in a very short space of time. They did this by making lovely devices, and writing plain english instructions with pretty pictures, and making it an easy process. Panasonic already make beautiful TV's, but prefer to concentrate on designing stickers to put on the front which market the features of the TV you've just bought and unboxed to you, than creating some nice instructions. I'd rather read 50 shades of grey than their sepia-tastic multilingual product manuals.
Edited by Stu R on Friday 21st September 02:01
Stu R said:
Apple turned my old man from technophobe phone dodger, to iPhone whizz in a very short space of time. They did this by making lovely devices, and writing plain english instructions with pretty pictures, and making it an easy process.
I think this is the key. 12 years ago as a student I worked in PC World and every day a saw intelligent adults totally flummoxed by a 'computer'. I had to show them they were not scary, how to find where their programs were, and tell them not to worry when the screen goes blue.Today, my 18 month old daughter uses an iPad by herself. We don't just 'set up an app' for her - we hand it to her off, she switches it on, swipes to unlock, scrolls through her pages of apps, chooses the one she wants, plays, then when she gets bored she exits out and chooses a new app and so on. The new thing is playing 'Baby Jake' from iPlayer.
It can be done simply by rethinking the current 'status quo' and how we interact with a device.
Maybe the Apple TVs when they arrive would do it?
I'm thinking a £10 webcam type camera you connect in the side, the screen tells you to put the camera where you sit, and it automatically calibrates it for the source and room.
I used to install TVs and with every install I would optimize the settings for their environment. We did this for free because we had to differentiate ourselves from Dixons and Currys somehow. In the old days you would have 3 settings to deal with and I would show the customer how to use them. Once the plasmas came out the customer now had to deal with 10 or more confusing settings. The customers also wanted to be blinded by their TVs when they turn them on so they just ruined the settings anyway.
I liked the B&O TVs that adjusted the picture to the light in the room. Theirs IMO was the only one that worked successfully.
Having said all of the above, the easy answer to the original question is going to be no. This is because people all insist on sticking their TVs up as if they are artwork. It was soul destroying being forced to install the TV wrong knowing the user is now going to be sat with a sore neck. But, they wouldn't listen.
I liked the B&O TVs that adjusted the picture to the light in the room. Theirs IMO was the only one that worked successfully.
Having said all of the above, the easy answer to the original question is going to be no. This is because people all insist on sticking their TVs up as if they are artwork. It was soul destroying being forced to install the TV wrong knowing the user is now going to be sat with a sore neck. But, they wouldn't listen.
I wonder how many are convinced it is better because it is shiny and new and just cost a load on wonga? Not the customers fault if they are not informed.
My dilemma is the house builder. At the moment the CRT sits where it always has because that is about the only place it will go. Mr House designer (off the shelf type) has decided that I have very few options now and when CRT dies.
Looking at some manuals I wonder if they are written by the people that know what is going on for the people that know what is going on.
My dilemma is the house builder. At the moment the CRT sits where it always has because that is about the only place it will go. Mr House designer (off the shelf type) has decided that I have very few options now and when CRT dies.
Looking at some manuals I wonder if they are written by the people that know what is going on for the people that know what is going on.
Morningside said:
People are watching their films with wrong settings according to film directors. Does not surprise me to be honest.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19650769
Thanks for that!http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19650769
Went through it last night and it was an interesting exercise with my Panny plasma. Fortunately I wasn't far out but tend to tinker with these things a fair bit anyway.
All this strikes me as the modern version of the 10 bar graphic equaliser. I know it's person preference but I used to raise an eyebrow or two and some friends who had theirs in all sorts of weird/wonderful positions.
I know they aren't as popular on here, but I find the 'Theatre' setting on Sony TVs is actually quite a reasonable setting for the sake of a one button press: It turns off most of the crap you don't need, lowers the backlight a bit and chooses a reasonably accurate colour temperature. When I calibrated mine (using a Professional grade of calibration software) it wasn't too far off at all, but the other settings were pretty inaccurate when measured.
While you can't perform greyscale, gamma and gamut calibration by eye, there are a lot of basic settings that would be done prior to any 'proper' calibration and if done, then will tend to give a significant improvement to the picture. Not every one has the time and inclination to learn the full ins and outs of calibration, but I think it's good that some level of set up instruction is available, worded in clear and simple terms.
Despite having spent a lot of time learning how to calibrate, my latest upgrade is for a 'closed loop' automatic calibration upgrade to my Chromapure calibration software linked with my Lumagen video processor: Press a button and leave it for about an hour for 21 point greyscale and gamma calibration, plus 125 point colour gamut calibration. It once took me about 5 hours trying to do just an 11 point greyscale & gamma, plus 18 point CMS adjustment by hand on a projector (which drifts pretty quickly due to lamp wear). It sounds a cool upgrade (free of charge for the Lumagen software of course), but I still need to ensure all the basic settings are correct first, so it's still at the mercy of user error if not.
Regarding the OP I think I could say that I am watching my films correctly.
While you can't perform greyscale, gamma and gamut calibration by eye, there are a lot of basic settings that would be done prior to any 'proper' calibration and if done, then will tend to give a significant improvement to the picture. Not every one has the time and inclination to learn the full ins and outs of calibration, but I think it's good that some level of set up instruction is available, worded in clear and simple terms.
Despite having spent a lot of time learning how to calibrate, my latest upgrade is for a 'closed loop' automatic calibration upgrade to my Chromapure calibration software linked with my Lumagen video processor: Press a button and leave it for about an hour for 21 point greyscale and gamma calibration, plus 125 point colour gamut calibration. It once took me about 5 hours trying to do just an 11 point greyscale & gamma, plus 18 point CMS adjustment by hand on a projector (which drifts pretty quickly due to lamp wear). It sounds a cool upgrade (free of charge for the Lumagen software of course), but I still need to ensure all the basic settings are correct first, so it's still at the mercy of user error if not.
Regarding the OP I think I could say that I am watching my films correctly.
It isn't, unless you're going by the TV standards of the 1970s. 576(i for 'interlaced') is the remaining number of 'lines' on a 625 line PAL TV system after overscan and Teletext signals are deducted from the picture. DVDs are 720 x 576i (or 720 x 480i if you buy USA region DVDs) so it's sometimes the default output resolution for BluRay players to allow you see the initial startup menu when you first set them up. Pretty much any TV with a HDMI input will accept 576i so it's the safe option to ensure the new owner gets some kind of picture rather than risk a returned 'faulty' player if it was set higher than the TV could accept (such as 1080p on some older TVs that only accept 720p or 1080i).
Some of the better players take you through a set up wizard that attempts to get the best quality settings for your TV, but they aren't all foolproof. Even the 'auto' settings don't always detect the correct settings for the display...
I was impressed a few years ago when I visited my Nana (who has since passed away) who at 93 had bought a new TV and a BluRay player. Unfortunately my uncle had connected it to the TV using a composite video cable
leaving her with a picture little better than a VHS player.
Some of the better players take you through a set up wizard that attempts to get the best quality settings for your TV, but they aren't all foolproof. Even the 'auto' settings don't always detect the correct settings for the display...
I was impressed a few years ago when I visited my Nana (who has since passed away) who at 93 had bought a new TV and a BluRay player. Unfortunately my uncle had connected it to the TV using a composite video cable
leaving her with a picture little better than a VHS player.Edited by OldSkoolRS on Sunday 23 September 21:34
AerialAndy said:
Quite agree. I setup my own business 8 years ago 'Get Connected' to install tv equipment correctly because as a delivery installer I would see how wrongly people had there equipment incorrectly setup and connected. I thought "I can do this for myself" and I've not looked back. HDMI set to 576, screen size set to 4:3 on Sky boxes, dvds etc when customer has a 16:9 set and dnr settings switched off so the picture resolution is awful and people just put up with it and carry on. Basically I find people have no idea about tv equipment today and just leave it set as it came out the box.
Still, means I can make a very good living and play with all sorts of tv equipment.
And I thought you were going to talk about calibration and matching the TV to the room conditions, not just holding the instructions while they read them, Oh well ho hum, Still, means I can make a very good living and play with all sorts of tv equipment.
Edited by AerialAndy on Thursday 20th September 19:38
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