Careless Driving????
Discussion
Sorry, bit of a story....
After over taking an unmarked car at "in excess of 50mph" in a 40 limit, I continued home and in the process took the racing line round a couple of small roundabouts (not above the limit I hasten to add) the police followed me and as I pulled into my driveway they pulled up outside. I have now been aquainted with possibly the rudest and most arrogant WPC in the entire world!
After giving me a dressing down for the speeding,- fair cop guv, sorry, she then accused me of careless driving by "weaving all over the road". I attempted to explain that being sat low in a Caterham I was using the full width of the road in an attempt to see more clearly round the obstacle. (the traffic islands have trees and flowers on them making it impossible to see over)At no point did I cross a white line, or make any sudden moves, or give any other vehicle concern about my road behaviour. Upshot of it all was that I get a producer then she informs me I can expect a summons for speeding and careless driving! - unbelievable! Would the educated among you advise if she was taking the p1ss or am I really in trouble. What sort of penalties am I likely to incur if the beak doesn't accept my version of events. As an aside, I asked to see the video in the car which was bluntly refused. Are they likely to bother writing this one up or can I expect a summons some time soon. Needless to say I am pretty cut up about this, can anybody offer any good advice.
Cheers
Tom
After over taking an unmarked car at "in excess of 50mph" in a 40 limit, I continued home and in the process took the racing line round a couple of small roundabouts (not above the limit I hasten to add) the police followed me and as I pulled into my driveway they pulled up outside. I have now been aquainted with possibly the rudest and most arrogant WPC in the entire world!
After giving me a dressing down for the speeding,- fair cop guv, sorry, she then accused me of careless driving by "weaving all over the road". I attempted to explain that being sat low in a Caterham I was using the full width of the road in an attempt to see more clearly round the obstacle. (the traffic islands have trees and flowers on them making it impossible to see over)At no point did I cross a white line, or make any sudden moves, or give any other vehicle concern about my road behaviour. Upshot of it all was that I get a producer then she informs me I can expect a summons for speeding and careless driving! - unbelievable! Would the educated among you advise if she was taking the p1ss or am I really in trouble. What sort of penalties am I likely to incur if the beak doesn't accept my version of events. As an aside, I asked to see the video in the car which was bluntly refused. Are they likely to bother writing this one up or can I expect a summons some time soon. Needless to say I am pretty cut up about this, can anybody offer any good advice.
Cheers
Tom
A friend of mine was threatened with dangerous driving for driving in a similar style (he'd cut a corner crossing a solid line).
He eventually got hold of a copy of the video and with the help of a good brief they got the CPS to agree that there was no case to answer and the charges were dropped.
Bit surprised that a traffic cop wouldn't appreciate the importance of sight lines.
He eventually got hold of a copy of the video and with the help of a good brief they got the CPS to agree that there was no case to answer and the charges were dropped.
Bit surprised that a traffic cop wouldn't appreciate the importance of sight lines.
Long story short - sympathies.
Strongly suggest you contact Mike at PePiPoo
[url]www.pepipoo.com[/url]
pepipoo@pepipoo.com
Wealth of experience of this kind of thing both before and at Court. Very good source of advice and support in my experience.
Edited to add - YHM
>> Edited by turbobloke on Sunday 22 August 22:13
Strongly suggest you contact Mike at PePiPoo
[url]www.pepipoo.com[/url]
pepipoo@pepipoo.com
Wealth of experience of this kind of thing both before and at Court. Very good source of advice and support in my experience.
Edited to add - YHM
>> Edited by turbobloke on Sunday 22 August 22:13
OK so we have one side of the story and without Wopsie's statement of events can only generalise as to what action will be.
Firstly penalties - speeding = max fine 1,000 and 3 -6 points. Due care = max fine 2,500 and between 3 - 9 points.
Due care and attention is the standard of driving that would be expected of a reasonable prudent and competent driver in all the attendant circumstances.
If will be a question of fact for a Court to decide and Magistrates may take into account local factors, time of day and peculiar hazards.
Without disclosing your involvement try running the circumstances, without gilding the lily, past a distant aquaintance to see what their opinion of the driving involved. This may give you some insight on what to do.
From what you say it certainly looks as if it is not a wind up and that she will be putting in a file to CPS for prosecution.
If this is the case, once summons have been issued, there is an obligation on the Prosecution side to disclose all evidence, in particular a video tape, to the defence. (Part I Criminal Proceduree and Investigation Act 1996.)
DVD
>> Edited by Dwight VanDriver on Monday 23 August 07:51
Firstly penalties - speeding = max fine 1,000 and 3 -6 points. Due care = max fine 2,500 and between 3 - 9 points.
Due care and attention is the standard of driving that would be expected of a reasonable prudent and competent driver in all the attendant circumstances.
If will be a question of fact for a Court to decide and Magistrates may take into account local factors, time of day and peculiar hazards.
Without disclosing your involvement try running the circumstances, without gilding the lily, past a distant aquaintance to see what their opinion of the driving involved. This may give you some insight on what to do.
From what you say it certainly looks as if it is not a wind up and that she will be putting in a file to CPS for prosecution.
If this is the case, once summons have been issued, there is an obligation on the Prosecution side to disclose all evidence, in particular a video tape, to the defence. (Part I Criminal Proceduree and Investigation Act 1996.)
DVD
>> Edited by Dwight VanDriver on Monday 23 August 07:51
tom7 said:
I have now been aquainted with possibly the rudest and most arrogant WPC in the entire world!
Sorry to hear how you were treated Tom. There is no excuse for rudeness.
tom7 said:
Upshot of it all was that I get a producer then she informs me I can expect a summons for speeding and careless driving! - unbelievable! Would the educated among you advise if she was taking the p1ss or am I really in trouble.
Did she not 'interview' you? It would have been best practise for her to interview you regarding the standard of your driving, however, not absolutely required.
tom7 said:
As an aside, I asked to see the video in the car which was bluntly refused.
This is often the case...videos in my force record continually and the offences/incidents arent't available for viewing by the 'driver/accused'.
tom7 said:
Are they likely to bother writing this one up or can I expect a summons some time soon.
Difficult to say...there are a few things that sit a bit strange with me. I would have interviewed you at the roadside for a start. If the job does go to court,you will have problems explaining you actions overtaking another vehicle which was travelling at the speed limit. That might be the fly in the ointment for you.
Hope it works out for the best, whatever that might be.
Street
gh0st said:
Why were you taking the racing line on the public road?
doesn't everybody straight-line empty roundabouts?
Well, it wasn't strictly a racing line, more a wide entry to allow me to see the exit line more clearly, as I said all this was done whilst complying with the speed limit. It was 8.30 on Sunday evening, hardly another car in sight apart from the burgundy Metro I followed round the traffic island.
Streetcop,
Thanks for the info re continuous record, I remember this being said.
If by interview you mean a two-way conversation that investigated my reasoning for my actions and allowed me to reply and then notes taken of my reply, then no there wasn't one. If you mean a one-sided 'you will listen to me and don't interrupt coz I'm not interested' sort of conversation, then yes, one did take place.
If it came to court, I would regret my exuberance with the 'go' pedal and plead guilty to a charge of speeding, (BTW, should I have been informed of exactly what speed I was being booked for?) BUT I will not concede I was being careless by looking to improve my line of sight. If you have never driven a 7-type car, it is difficult to appreciate how much harder you have to work for a decent field of view.
Even though the video was on continuous record, is it possible that the speed recorder wasn't switched on as at the time they were bimbling in traffic when I overtook them.
I may have overtaken in excees of the limit but I then carried-on at around the speed limit.
If I was being uncharitable, could I suggest a 'my word against theirs' sort of offence i.e. careless driving is easier for them to convict on as there may not be any actual video evidence of a speeding offence.
Would the police have to use the video as evidence of 'careless driving' or could I use it defensively?
Sorry for the loads of questions, but after a clean 20 year record where I like to think that I am pretty conscientious compared with some of the looneys I see everyday on the M40/M42, this has come as a shock.
Tom
I may have overtaken in excees of the limit but I then carried-on at around the speed limit.
If I was being uncharitable, could I suggest a 'my word against theirs' sort of offence i.e. careless driving is easier for them to convict on as there may not be any actual video evidence of a speeding offence.
Would the police have to use the video as evidence of 'careless driving' or could I use it defensively?
Sorry for the loads of questions, but after a clean 20 year record where I like to think that I am pretty conscientious compared with some of the looneys I see everyday on the M40/M42, this has come as a shock.
Tom
Tom7 said:If I can see nothing's coming and there's no cars close behind I do
doesn't everybody straight-line empty roundabouts?
Don't see a problem with it, especially in a Se7en. Tom7 said:Tell me about it! Until you've driven one of the road you just don't realise how much harder in can be in certain situations.
If you have never driven a 7-type car, it is difficult to appreciate how much harder you have to work for a decent field of view.
Sorry I can't be of any help on you matter. If and when you get a summons you might want to find a good solicitor. Good luck with it all!
Thanks for the input so far.
Can anybody tell me what constitutes careless driving?
Is it just the opinion of a moody WPC or are there specific 'rules' that have to be contravened? No attempt was made to explain or educate me other than the opinion that I was "weaving all over the road".
Can anybody tell me what constitutes careless driving?
Is it just the opinion of a moody WPC or are there specific 'rules' that have to be contravened? No attempt was made to explain or educate me other than the opinion that I was "weaving all over the road".
Hi Tom,
Had a slightly similar experience a year or so ago with a WPC in a bad mood who waved a badge at me and said I was going to be reported. IMO driving was careful, fast and I was paying attention at all times. Off duty not in an unmarked though.
Due to my nature did cause a lot of stress and worry (probably just me others would have laughed it off).
My best advice is don't worry until something arrives in the post, you should then have time to contact a someone in the legal profession about it. To clarify things though it won't hurt to re-drive the route and write down the lines you took and reasons why, other traffic, if you can remember what else was about etc, road conditions. Then if you do need them later you won't have to worry about remembering them.
Chill, don't worry till you hear something. The PC involved will have had to review the tape (I guess) and write up exactly what you were doing wrong to the extent that the is justifiable to take to court - BIB on here correct me if I'm wrong.
Dave
p.s. you can't have been canning it if she kept up with you in plod car vs. a 7
Had a slightly similar experience a year or so ago with a WPC in a bad mood who waved a badge at me and said I was going to be reported. IMO driving was careful, fast and I was paying attention at all times. Off duty not in an unmarked though.
Due to my nature did cause a lot of stress and worry (probably just me others would have laughed it off).
My best advice is don't worry until something arrives in the post, you should then have time to contact a someone in the legal profession about it. To clarify things though it won't hurt to re-drive the route and write down the lines you took and reasons why, other traffic, if you can remember what else was about etc, road conditions. Then if you do need them later you won't have to worry about remembering them.
Chill, don't worry till you hear something. The PC involved will have had to review the tape (I guess) and write up exactly what you were doing wrong to the extent that the is justifiable to take to court - BIB on here correct me if I'm wrong.
Dave
p.s. you can't have been canning it if she kept up with you in plod car vs. a 7
There's nothing wrong with "racing line" at all.
In fact, it's safer because your sightline is improved.
Of course, the word "racing" could cause the ignorant to get all raged-up.
I suspect the WPC was angered because you may not have been bumbling along in a hesitant manner and were seen to be "stepping out of line" or driving "differently" to what she thought (maybe sunconsciously) was a "normal" manner.
In fact, it's safer because your sightline is improved.
Of course, the word "racing" could cause the ignorant to get all raged-up.
I suspect the WPC was angered because you may not have been bumbling along in a hesitant manner and were seen to be "stepping out of line" or driving "differently" to what she thought (maybe sunconsciously) was a "normal" manner.
Bad news Tom.
As a general rule I always carry video equipment when I am out for a blat (bullet cam on the aeroscreen and DV recorder in the boot or footwell). The other good reason to carry this is because if you do get a pull from BiB it will record everything they say on the mic.
This way if anything does happen I have some evidence from my line of sight.
As for the overtake, I think you are stuck there. But a conviction for Careless Driving will be difficult to gain a conviction. As a side note the "racing line" taking the apex etc is not always the safest line, but it does depend on the road and surrounding clutter.
Sit it out for now and if anything comes through let me know. If anything does happen a post on BC might be an idea too as there are a few good solicitors on there who can offer advice.
As a general rule I always carry video equipment when I am out for a blat (bullet cam on the aeroscreen and DV recorder in the boot or footwell). The other good reason to carry this is because if you do get a pull from BiB it will record everything they say on the mic.
This way if anything does happen I have some evidence from my line of sight.
As for the overtake, I think you are stuck there. But a conviction for Careless Driving will be difficult to gain a conviction. As a side note the "racing line" taking the apex etc is not always the safest line, but it does depend on the road and surrounding clutter.
Sit it out for now and if anything comes through let me know. If anything does happen a post on BC might be an idea too as there are a few good solicitors on there who can offer advice.
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