F1 v Champ v IRL
Discussion
For excitement, Champ cars seem to be good value for money this season and Wilson has made a good showing, but for British interest Indy Racing League has got be the clear winner... latest result from Pikes Peak:
1. Franchitti GBR
2. Fernandez MEX
3. Wheldon GBR
4. Manning GBR
I have always been a massive F1 fan, but Herr Schumacher and Ferrari have made this season so predictable and boring that I'm now more interested in the American scene.
Do others feel the same way?
1. Franchitti GBR
2. Fernandez MEX
3. Wheldon GBR
4. Manning GBR
I have always been a massive F1 fan, but Herr Schumacher and Ferrari have made this season so predictable and boring that I'm now more interested in the American scene.
Do others feel the same way?
308gt4 said:
no.....and the driving standard in the Champs/IRL is pathetic, especially when it rains.
IRL has never run in the rain...
Standards in Champ Car are ok if you ask me - I'd rather see drivers have a go and balls it up than just trundle round for a point.
The one thing I will criticise IRL for it pit lane discipline. That goes for NASCAR too. Time and time again you see cars being waved out straight into the path of another car. Recipe for disaster.
I also listen to the IRL races on www.wibc.com live. They are realy entertaining because you never know who is going to win unlike F1. It is even more pleasing when Britons come in 1st, 3rd and 4th!
308gt4 said:
no.....and the driving standard in the Champs/IRL is pathetic, especially when it rains.
Mario Andretti ? Villeneuve? Montoya?
Been watching Indycars since long before the IRL/Champ split, and still enjoy both. Lots of very good drivers (like Franchitti & Bourdais), good racing, some daft rules, but great value.
well we get the Indy here on the Gold Coast in Oz and the year before last in rained and the pace car was TOO quick for the "drivers" with wets on so I may be biased asI paid to watch pros go round the track but ended up watching a Honda pass the finish line before the hot shots.
Andretti (Mario) is still a good driver but to say JV is a good driver because he won in a car that was the class of the field in '97 is a bit of a stretch, he has a death wish and blew up more motors than Sato...again just my bias
Also look at the amount of crashes that happen in IRL/Champ in the pits and on the corners as opposed to F1 where the drivers KNOW where the limit of the car is and the length of the car (most of the time)
Andretti (Mario) is still a good driver but to say JV is a good driver because he won in a car that was the class of the field in '97 is a bit of a stretch, he has a death wish and blew up more motors than Sato...again just my bias
Also look at the amount of crashes that happen in IRL/Champ in the pits and on the corners as opposed to F1 where the drivers KNOW where the limit of the car is and the length of the car (most of the time)
foster3jd said:
Do others feel the same way?
Yup. Well, about F1 anyway.
Although F1 is'nt boring because of Schumacher and Co. Remember the days of Renault dominance?
Its because F1 has been made a joke ever since Senna and Ratty died.
More changes than a Marks & Sparks fitting room. And all in the name of safety.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for drivers not getting killed. But F1 IS a dangerous sport, and drivers will get hurt. It goes with the territory.
They should have ONLY made changes in cockpit safety design, wheel teathers and impact force dissipation.
SD
in terms of ultimate speed though F1 is still streets ahead around circuits, compare the qualifying times of the montreal track where both F1 and champ car go.
F1 = 1.12:275 R.schumacher BMW williams
Champ Car = 1.19:665 A.Tagliani Ford Cosworth
that time would have plonked him on the back of the grid behind the minardi's.
there's probably more overtaking though
F1 = 1.12:275 R.schumacher BMW williams
Champ Car = 1.19:665 A.Tagliani Ford Cosworth
that time would have plonked him on the back of the grid behind the minardi's.
there's probably more overtaking though
ccharlie6 said:
in terms of ultimate speed though F1 is still streets ahead around circuits, compare the qualifying times of the montreal track where both F1 and champ car go.
F1 = 1.12:275 R.schumacher BMW williams
Champ Car = 1.19:665 A.Tagliani Ford Cosworth
that time would have plonked him on the back of the grid behind the minardi's.
there's probably more overtaking though
Mind you there's been a chassis freeze in champ car for a few years now though IIRC. But yes, F1 is still miles quicker. This flatters champ car remember, as Montreal is point and squirt and they don't lack horsepower. Brakes are steel, too.
Actually, putting it like that makes Tag's time quite impressive
It used to be the case that a champ car deficiency was made up with 200bhp extra (in the mid nineties, they were pumping out 900 to F1's 700 odd at the start of the 3.0l era in '95) But F1s insane development and Champcars restrictions (back to more like 700 i think) shows how good those chassis are despite thier disadvantages in weight and technology
bad boy said:
never seen a irl race but i have been watching a bit of champ car lately and imo its a lot more intresting than f1.....
IRL... never been riveted by an IRL race yet. they tend to thunder round ovals millimeters apart but not actually doing much!!
Champ cars is OK, but it was FANTASTIC in its heyday ('93-2000ish) Particularly Alex Zanardi's exploits during his time with Ganassi.
(Fondly remember *THAT* pass at Laguna Seca...)
foster3jd said:
For excitement, Champ cars seem to be good value for money this season and Wilson has made a good showing, but for British interest Indy Racing League has got be the clear winner... latest result from Pikes Peak:
1. Franchitti GBR
2. Fernandez MEX
3. Wheldon GBR
4. Manning GBR
I have always been a massive F1 fan, but Herr Schumacher and Ferrari have made this season so predictable and boring that I'm now more interested in the American scene.
Do others feel the same way?
I only got round to watching the Pikes Peak race in the early hours of this morning (about 0130, think it was on channel 5. )
I'm also a massive F1 fan
I'm still more interested in F1 than anything else...in the sense that I have to watch the races live and go to the Brit GP each year...subscribe to an F1 site - and need a daily fix of F1 news, gossip, comment etc.
Interest in all other forms of motorsport increased dramatically when NTL laid a cable outside my house 4 years ago
Having access to Eurosport...opened up a whole new TV viewing motorsport world for me and for others
So it's being able to watch MotoGp, WRC, the Dakar, IRL, champ cars, touring cars etc. that generates interest...but it's only F1 that is given prime time on terrestrial TV.
I just enjoy all of them
jimmyc412t2 said:You wouldn't be saying that if you'd seen Schekter draft past 6-7 cars whilst going 3-4 wide into the turn during the Indy 500... move of the season!!!!!
IRL... never been riveted by an IRL race yet. they tend to thunder round ovals millimeters apart but not actually doing much!!
ps. word is that IRL will be using a couple or road circuits next year, so not sure what that means for the future of the Champ car series but will give distinct advantage to teams that run in both IRL and Champ as they should already have the set-up info.
I used to follow CART when I first got Eurosport (1997 - live races every Sunday etc) and enjoyed it a lot. Unfortunately, CART has self destructed in the intervening period and IRL's TV scheduling for Europe has been less than impressive. With the Brits doing well in IRL its time that it was taken up by amainstream broadcaster and put out at more sociable hours.
I was anti-IRL myself when it started - I felt it was a bit of a Micky Mouse series and that CART was the true bearer of the open wheel lagacy in American motor sport. However, it's CART that has withered away and IRL that has gradually gained a foothold. The fact that next year IRL is running some races off the ovals is a good thing and I hope it broadens its appeal and makes itself more attractive to overseas TV broadcasters as a result.
I was anti-IRL myself when it started - I felt it was a bit of a Micky Mouse series and that CART was the true bearer of the open wheel lagacy in American motor sport. However, it's CART that has withered away and IRL that has gradually gained a foothold. The fact that next year IRL is running some races off the ovals is a good thing and I hope it broadens its appeal and makes itself more attractive to overseas TV broadcasters as a result.
IRL will be running at Infineon (Sears Point) and Watkins Glen next season. Interesting really - the IRL is now the antithesis of everything it was set up to be. The whole point was a US based all oval series with up and coming US talent and smaller teams who maybe didn't have the budgets to run in CART. That was true for a bit, but then CART got too big for its boots and tried to become an international series, sponsors got jittery with the result being all the top teams jumping ship to the IRL complete with an influx of foreign (in many cases better) drivers. Result? IRL costs go up and the small teams can't afford to run. Not sure what the road courses will mean for the 05 chassis either. Presumably big changes will be needed to the all oval spec they run presently. That'll probably kill off any small teams left.
Given the criticism of F1 at the moment, I thought it'd be a good time to revive this thread.
Here is my assessment of the current season:
F1 - probably at an all time low from a fans perspective, with overtaking moves almost non-existent, or missed by truely awful TV coverage - the exception being Button passing Schumi last weekend.
IRL - another interesting season with Andretti Green and Penske battling for leads in every round, plus good British interest with Wheldon and Franchitti both challenging for the title.
Champ - seems to have improved again with more drivers/cars contending for victories, including our own Justin Wilson who is the form driver over the last few races - building nicely to a climax with Tracy, Bourdais and Wilson all to the fore.
In summary, if all three were to be covered live simultaneously, I'd be watching the Champ cars, and flicking first to IRL and finally to F1.
I'm shocked to admit that in these times, I actually prefer US single seater racing but suspect that I'm maybe not alone!
>> Edited by foster3jd on Wednesday 27th July 13:51
Here is my assessment of the current season:
F1 - probably at an all time low from a fans perspective, with overtaking moves almost non-existent, or missed by truely awful TV coverage - the exception being Button passing Schumi last weekend.
IRL - another interesting season with Andretti Green and Penske battling for leads in every round, plus good British interest with Wheldon and Franchitti both challenging for the title.
Champ - seems to have improved again with more drivers/cars contending for victories, including our own Justin Wilson who is the form driver over the last few races - building nicely to a climax with Tracy, Bourdais and Wilson all to the fore.
In summary, if all three were to be covered live simultaneously, I'd be watching the Champ cars, and flicking first to IRL and finally to F1.
I'm shocked to admit that in these times, I actually prefer US single seater racing but suspect that I'm maybe not alone!
>> Edited by foster3jd on Wednesday 27th July 13:51
Please excuse my ignorance, but could someone explain the fundamental differences betwen IRL and Champ?
All I really know is that once there was IndyCars (aka. "Formula 1 for Americans" ) and then they split into IRL and Champ, and that's about all I know. Shocking really considering that in the past I've accused Americans of being parochial.
>> Edited by JonRB on Thursday 28th July 14:07
All I really know is that once there was IndyCars (aka. "Formula 1 for Americans" ) and then they split into IRL and Champ, and that's about all I know. Shocking really considering that in the past I've accused Americans of being parochial.
>> Edited by JonRB on Thursday 28th July 14:07
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