Flash and shutter sync speed questions

[anonymous-user]

Afternoon all,

I'm not a big user of flash really, most of my stuff is daylight photos or long exposure night stuff.
I do use manual flash for my nightclub jobs, camera usually set shutter to 1/20th and ISO 800-1600 to get plenty of ambient light in, while the flash pops to nicely freeze and illuminate the subjects. I just manually adjust the flash power to suit as I go along.

So, I have a feel for slow speed flash, but I'm struggling a bit to understand high speed flash and sync speeds.

I know from my own experimentation whilst bored, that once you set the shutter speed over about 1/250-300, a band of darkness descends over the image, where I presume, the shutter is opening and closing faster than the flash is firing?

Camera is a D7000 by the way before I forget to mention that.

I'm asking about this issue, because I will be needing high speed flash come the snow, as I have been asked by some skiing and snowboarder friends to snap them in action, jumping, landing etc. I'm a skiier myself so this is a great chance to combine two hobbies

I am aware from doing some reading, that good action photos of snowsports require fast shutter speed and LOTS of flash power to illuminate the subject against the very strong ambient light that is usually present in these environments.

The flash power won't be an issue (hopefully) as I have 2 Yongnuo YN-460 manual speedlights that I use as my flashes which I find to be rated very bright indeed, and I also have a few wireless radio triggers for off camera speedlight stuff.

But I am unsure as how to proceed in getting a shutter speed of 1/500 upwards to sync with the speedlights?

I know people must do this all the time to get glorious sharp shots with the sun behind the subject such as the below, but I just cant work out how!

Any tips are very welcome

[MartinP]

Take a look at this for an explanation about high speed synch:

http://www.pocketwizard.com/inspirations/tutorials...

I could be wrong but I'd suspect that your 3rd party manual flash guns won't be up to it and you'll need clever wireless triggers (like PocketWizards) too if you want to get the flash off camera.

[Pickled]

You'll need to get yourself a Nikon SBxxx speedlite.

Have a read/watch of some of Joe McNally's stuff on using the Nikon CLS

[anonymous-user]

Pickled said:

You'll need to get yourself a Nikon SBxxx speedlite.

Have a read/watch of some of Joe McNally's stuff on using the Nikon CLS

I've got a Nikon SB 400 but I suspect being a lesser model, it won't be any good either?

[anonymous-user]

MartinP said:

Take a look at this for an explanation about high speed synch:

http://www.pocketwizard.com/inspirations/tutorials...

I could be wrong but I'd suspect that your 3rd party manual flash guns won't be up to it and you'll need clever wireless triggers (like PocketWizards) too if you want to get the flash off camera.

In all seriousness, that was one of the most interesting and well explained photography videos I have watched.

I now actually understand how a DSLR shutter works and how that affects the flash I need.

Thanks

[Pickled]

NinjaPower said:

I've got a Nikon SB 400 but I suspect being a lesser model, it won't be any good either?

No, you'll probably need at least the SB600

[anonymous-user]

Pickled said:

No, you'll probably need at least the SB600

Balls.

There is always something else expensive needed isn't there??

[Simpo Two]

High speed synch gives less power - which reinforces the saying 'get the most powerful you can'. Like the SB910 with extra fries and ketchup. You can always use it at half power, but you can't use a lesser flash at double. You'll also get faster recycle times and more options for later.

[LongQ]

It occurs to me that if you are working in an envirnment with a lot of snow - or a white wall or anything highly reflective - so long as you can set up the shot to use the reflectivity you proabbly don't need much, if any, additional lighting.

Take the sample shot. I would guess that the snowbank left of camera (and below too) is going to light the subject with only marginally less power than the sun offers. So long as the the subject os not too far away from the "light source" they will be well lit by the fill. That shot looks like a pretty wide angle lens to 'light' and camera distance to the subject is probably not more 2 or 3 meters. (At a guess).

A portable reflector would work the same way and perhaps provide a little additional control of the light but might need an assistant to be practical to transport and use.

The big budget stuff will more than likely use a team of assistants carrying outdoor usable portable 'Studio' lighting rigs and they change everything, potentially, depending upon which system you use.

[anonymous-user]

Ok, thanks to the replies and from there to doing my research, it would appear that to get round this problem, I need to buy a flash that supports Nikon's 'Auto FP high speed' system, which will automatically sync with the camera up to the maximum shutter speed the camera can manage.

Also it looks like Simpo was correct in suggesting buying the best flash possible such as the SB900 as the distance is greatly reduced at high speed. All these issues and features of the Auto FP system are detailed quite well here:

http://darrellyoung.blogspot.co.uk/2011/10/underst...

[LongQ]

FWIW your post has prompted me to get around to looking at my Canon EX580II HSS feature. I've only had the thing a year though (almost) and these things take a while ...

The 580 is the top of the range Canon unit (or was until they brought out the 600 this year) an so power out put and general performenace is on a par with the to[ of the rage Nikons, more or less.

If I set HSS and play around with AV and Tv in manual mode and go for something like f10 and 1/4000th if suggests the flash (using automatic TTL light controls) will work between about 1 and 3ft to the subject. That's to give a full exposure so maybe a foot or so more for fill only. However that was with a 70-200 fitted and the flash's zoom involved. Go to wide angle and the available distance is a lot less.

The Nikon units may do things differently of course but the general effect is likely to be similar.

I somehow doubt the sample shot use on camera flash. The lumps of snow nearest the camers would surely look totally blown if it did? I stil reckon reflected sunlight but with the possibility of some additional off camera flash in there somewhere almost unseen - which is now it should be really. If there is off-camera flash I would hazard a guess at using radio triggers (or old school cable!) rather than IR.

[anonymous-user]

LongQ said:

It occurs to me that if you are working in an envirnment with a lot of snow - or a white wall or anything highly reflective - so long as you can set up the shot to use the reflectivity you proabbly don't need much, if any, additional lighting.

Take the sample shot. I would guess that the snowbank left of camera (and below too) is going to light the subject with only marginally less power than the sun offers. So long as the the subject os not too far away from the "light source" they will be well lit by the fill. That shot looks like a pretty wide angle lens to 'light' and camera distance to the subject is probably not more 2 or 3 meters. (At a guess).

A portable reflector would work the same way and perhaps provide a little additional control of the light but might need an assistant to be practical to transport and use.

The big budget stuff will more than likely use a team of assistants carrying outdoor usable portable 'Studio' lighting rigs and they change everything, potentially, depending upon which system you use.

You might well be right about using a reflector of sorts, however a lot of the shots I have seen of the type above either use a large on camera flash, or something like the below, which I assume is some sort of portable high power flash?

[andy-xr]

I'd be tempted to have a backup plan of shooting that kind of photo twice, but watch out for the shadows if you put the guy who flew over at 2pm into the 10am sun shot

[anonymous-user]

Another nice one:

The photographer says this was lit using a portable powerpack flash, an Elichrome Ranger 'at full power' triggered by some Pocketwizards.



More interesting info on getting a shot like this from the photographer:

http://theskiphotographer.com/dan-carr-gear-list/f...

Maybe that SB900 won't be enough!! Lol

[LongQ]

NinjaPower said:

You might well be right about using a reflector of sorts, however a lot of the shots I have seen of the type above either use a large on camera flash, or something like the below, which I assume is some sort of portable high power flash?

Yup..

Try this as background. It's a wedding theme rather than snow and does not especially involve high speed stuff but you can see the kit being worked.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xnSZfaJlHs&lis...

[Simpo Two]

And this budget of yours... what was it exactly?

www.wexphotographic.com/buy-elinchrom-ranger-quadr...

[anonymous-user]

LongQ said:

Yup..

Try this as background. It's a wedding theme rather than snow and does not especially involve high speed stuff but you can see the kit being worked.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xnSZfaJlHs&lis...

Another good video there.

Arse. This is getting more slightly more expensive than first thought, but I would still like to try!

Perhaps I should begin with a SB900 speedlight mounted on camera... That way I don't have to worry about also buying some super fast remote flash triggers.

[anonymous-user]

Simpo Two said:

And this budget of yours... what was it exactly?

www.wexphotographic.com/buy-elinchrom-ranger-quadr...

Holy st.

That is a VERY nice little box of tricks there, but Christ do you pay for it!

As above, at this point, an SB900 seems the 'sensible' option to try out right nor

[LongQ]

NinjaPower said:

Another good video there.

Arse. This is getting more slightly more expensive than first thought, but I would still like to try!

Perhaps I should begin with a SB900 speedlight mounted on camera... That way I don't have to worry about also buying some super fast remote flash triggers.

Did you watch part 2 as well?

Wikipedia has in interesting (perhaps?) summary history of photographic flash systems going rght back to the original 'flash' powder of course.


And this article is quite readable and, potentially, thought provoking. Especially the graph and perhaps mostly the caption to it.

You can rent the kit if course but the problem with that is that unless you are familiar with it already you may not get the best out of it - especially on location. Plus it is, rented or purchased, a fair amount of extra kit, one way or another, to lug around on a snowy mountain!

Edited by LongQ on Monday 24th September 22:14

[markmullen]

I've just ordered a set of Quadra Rangers having used them on a few magazine car shoots with my day job, they are fantastic to use, very light and portable and enough power for most jobs.

You can rent them from The Flash Centre if you want to try them, fantastic gear, the only trouble is you'll, like I did, keep thinking of jobs for them and will end up justifying a set.