Potential issue at work (hand in of notice related)

[smokey145]

Gents,

just to give you an overview of the situation. handed in notice at work last week, company were shocked, surprised, disappointed. proceeded to ask me if there was anything they could offer me/do to make me stay to which the answer was no. my boss called me late on friday to ask to meet up and discuss things and again ask me if they could do anything for me.....

i am keen to leave, amicably. now the tricky part. they owe me quite a bit of money.

expenses
outstanding bonus (amount and date of payment was agreed verbally)
20 days holiday.

spoke to HR this morning, they seem to now be reneging on the bonus payment. where as i am not surprised by this, i am extremely disappointed that they would pull such a s trick after 6 years of service.

if they continue to mess me about what can i do to put the screw into them to get the money back from them they owe me? ive got 4 weeks of holiday to take and could leave them in the st big time if i was to take it and not handover my current workload, of which is considerable.

any advice would be greatly appreciated. on hearing the news regarding my bonus this morning i am livid.

[Rude-boy]

smokey145 said:

... they owe me quite a bit of money.

expenses
outstanding bonus (amount and date of payment was agreed verbally)
20 days holiday.

spoke to HR this morning, they seem to now be reneging on the bonus payment....

I can’t offer you any advice on your issue as it is not something I deal with.

I post however, not at your expense OP, to suggest that this is another case of failure to ensure that anything not nailed down and agreed in writing is paid out/handed over/as appropriate, before you do something like hand in notice to quit.

As soon as your notice goes in all bets are off other than those things that are nailed down in “st if he sues us to perform we will lose” writing first! (even then people can get ‘difficult’.)

Good luck OP

[Gargamel]

How long is your notice period ?

What does your contract specify in relation to the bonus ?

Personally I would be on the phone to your boss, and trying to reach a compromise.

You will work and produce a professional handover - they pay your bonus.

Or you walk at the end of the week and take your maximum allowable holiday - (it won't be 20 days) as you are leaving part way through the year, but let's say its 12 days.

See what they say - all about negotiation at this point - do you need a reference ?

[pincher]

First rule of resigning? Ensuring that any bonus due is firmly ensconced in your bank account rather than theirs.

Frankly, I'd be amazed if they relented on that one, especially as it was a verbal confirmation only. Your CoE will probably state that you have to be employed and not under any notice period in order for a forthcoming bonus to be honoured.

[smokey145]

thanks for the replies so far guys. appreciate the comment that once the notice goes in all bets are off. regarding the bonus, i was always likely to be in the position where on handing in my notice they would owe me this particular bonus payment because of the way it was worded to me, so there was never a clean cut off period for it.

maximum allowable holiday? well they owe me 20 days holiday. nothing written into my contract regarding maximum allowable holidays.

and yes, i like the comment regarding the comprimise, professional handover in exchange for the outstanding bonus payment. like i mentioned, last thing i would want to do is take my holiday and not put together a reasonable handover for them..... but if they fk me about that might be exactly what happens.

[smokey145]

pincher said:

First rule of resigning? Ensuring that any bonus due is firmly ensconced in your bank account rather than theirs.

Frankly, I'd be amazed if they relented on that one, especially as it was a verbal confirmation only. Your CoE will probably state that you have to be employed and not under any notice period in order for a forthcoming bonus to be honoured.

CoE does not state that, the clause is more onerous/loose than that "at the complete discretion of the directors"

so, and as i know. they are completely in control of the bonus situation. the only chips that i am holding is the volume of work that they are going to need to be handed back to them from me and also the holiday that i have owing to me.

[mondeoman]

Nothing in writing - yer fked.

Best you can do is negotiate and see what they say.

[jeremyc]

smokey145 said:

CoE does not state that, the clause is more onerous/loose than that "at the complete discretion of the directors"

so, and as i know. they are completely in control of the bonus situation. the only chips that i am holding is the volume of work that they are going to need to be handed back to them from me and also the holiday that i have owing to me.

I'm willing to bet holiday is at company's discretion as well. They may want you to stay on for the entire notice period and pay you for the outstanding holiday due.

[onesickpuppy]

jeremyc said:

smokey145 said:

CoE does not state that, the clause is more onerous/loose than that "at the complete discretion of the directors"

so, and as i know. they are completely in control of the bonus situation. the only chips that i am holding is the volume of work that they are going to need to be handed back to them from me and also the holiday that i have owing to me.

I'm willing to bet holiday is at company's discretion as well. They may want you to stay on for the entire notice period and pay you for the outstanding holiday due.

This must be a rather stressful situation, which would only be made more stressful if you were not allowed to take your holidays. Watch you don't get too stressed and end up off work sick...

[Jonnas]

Unless you need a reference or really dont want to burn your bridges, there is nothing really to stop you leaving without working your notice. If your new employer is willing for you to start straight away then really you have little to lose. As previously mentioned, it is all down to negotiation but I would be using this one as a last resort if they realy are going to withold your bonus payment.

IANAL but in all my years I have seen many people leave well within their notice period and I have never seen a business persue any one for any kind of damages.

[Blue62]

Take a copy of your contract to a good employment lawyer and get some advice before you sit down to talk to your boss or HR. Once they're aware that you know your rights and have taken advice (whatever they may be in the circumstances) they are less likely to push you around. I'm sure if you're sensible you can agree a compromise, the holiday owed and the fact you could walk is (I think) your ace in the hole.

[Soovy]

pincher said:

First rule of resigning? Ensuring that any bonus due is firmly ensconced in your bank account rather than theirs.

This. Big mistake to leave before bonus paid, unless it's contractual.

[Mr Gearchange]

pincher said:

First rule of resigning? Ensuring that any bonus due is firmly ensconced in your bank account rather than theirs.

This I am afraid.
I have been offered a new job - which I will be taking as it's a whacking great pay rise.
But my current employer owe me 50K in commission payments.

I have told me new employer, in no uncertain terms, that there is no way in the world I am handing in my ticket until it's all paid into my bank.

I'd be very surprised if your bounus paymyment isn't completely discretionary.

Sorry.

[smokey145]

To re-iterate, I understand completely the bonus payment is discretionary.... And because of the nature of the bonus, it was always going to be a potential sticking point when handing in my notice. All I'm asking is, how have people faired in similar positions and what have they done to secure the outstanding monies?

Long shot, I am fully aware of that.

Edited by smokey145 on Tuesday 25th September 16:57

[Jonnas]

I think the only thing you can do is negotiate an egreement. i.e. I will work my notice if you pay me the bonus you owe me.

Otherwise, I think you are buggered.........

[smokey145]

Now sad to report that they have gained illegal access to my emails (after reading up on this I note it is illegal to access emails without notifying the user. And thy are also re-neging on agreements I had to work from home. This is all getting. Ery messy but I really don't like the though of people fking messing me about. What to do?

[Gwagon111]

smokey145 said:

Now sad to report that they have gained illegal access to my emails (after reading up on this I note it is illegal to access emails without notifying the user. And thy are also re-neging on agreements I had to work from home. This is all getting. Ery messy but I really don't like the though of people fking messing me about. What to do?

I would have waited until the bonus money was in the bank, before handing in my notice. I'd say it was a fairly safe bet they won't pay it now. I'd just put it down to experience and move on if I were you. If you are going to work in the same industry, it's not adviseable to make yourself a P.I.T.A. before you move on. People tend to know each other in a given industry, and it will probably come back to bite you sooner or later.

[Funk]

And businesses wonder why there's no employee loyalty these days. Shocking that the OP's company are prepared to screw him over like this.

OP, if they were reading emails to/from your work email address, they're company property. If they've gained access to personal email accounts somehow then that's a whole different ballgame. FWIW, I NEVER use my work machine/connection for anything other than work. If I need to send/receive a personal email on GMail or similar, I use my phone.