PDK v's Manual
Discussion
ok, ok.
i know that for years the manual v's tiptronic debate went on & on & was virtually impossible to win, simply because it was essentially the automatic v's manual debate & both those things appeal to different buyers.
but PDK? does it have the benefits of a true automatic? does it create the missing link to a manual? does it offer the best or possibly the worse of both worlds?
thoughts?
i know that for years the manual v's tiptronic debate went on & on & was virtually impossible to win, simply because it was essentially the automatic v's manual debate & both those things appeal to different buyers.
but PDK? does it have the benefits of a true automatic? does it create the missing link to a manual? does it offer the best or possibly the worse of both worlds?
thoughts?
Spent last weekend in a 981S PDK and have given some thought to the idea of having a PDK box next time around and:
1. Paddles. I don't mind the buttons, but I think the paddles are considerably more tactile - the milled aluminium and the slightly mechanical feel of them is just right. These are a must if you want to feel as connected as possible, in my view.
2. Auto mode is super smooth, and very convenient and suits the 981 well when you're cruising. The whole car feels more GT than the 987 did, and so a slush box works well with that whole ethos
3. Speed - it is super super quick - if you're really on it it's devastatingly fast
4. Connection. Overall I just didn't feel as involved. Yes, it's terrific to just flick your wrist and hear the exhaust burble on the over-run from 3rd to 2nd, but it's not as satisfying as doing it right yourself. For me I reckon a Spanish box with short shift kit will be the way to go, though it's a tough one - when you're not 'on it' a PDK box is surely the better choice.
1. Paddles. I don't mind the buttons, but I think the paddles are considerably more tactile - the milled aluminium and the slightly mechanical feel of them is just right. These are a must if you want to feel as connected as possible, in my view.
2. Auto mode is super smooth, and very convenient and suits the 981 well when you're cruising. The whole car feels more GT than the 987 did, and so a slush box works well with that whole ethos
3. Speed - it is super super quick - if you're really on it it's devastatingly fast
4. Connection. Overall I just didn't feel as involved. Yes, it's terrific to just flick your wrist and hear the exhaust burble on the over-run from 3rd to 2nd, but it's not as satisfying as doing it right yourself. For me I reckon a Spanish box with short shift kit will be the way to go, though it's a tough one - when you're not 'on it' a PDK box is surely the better choice.
..It's hard to argue that the PDK box is not good, its excellent, smooth, ultra fast gearchanges, and safe down the box.. BUT.. for me, driving is about 3 things, pedals, gearsticks, and steering... heel and toeing down a box and getting it right is much more rewarding, and takes more skill..
I think it depends on the car, I drove PDK 997's and preferred the manual (which is what I owned), however half a day in the 991 convinced me that PDK was the better option, it just seems to suit the car in a way it did not in the 997. I do miss the interaction, but not enough to regret my decision but it's a personal choice and I would respect and understand anyone still plumping for manual. If I was buying an older Pork, it would always be manual.
PDK with Sport Plus, paddles and PSE is now better than Manual.
If you are driving fast enough you don't have time to take your hands off the wheel... Therefore Pdk is the only option.
I used to be a PDK naysayer, now I look forward to Porsche eliminating the Manual box. The only Manual box I would ever want to own is a CGT based on the reviews... But that's beyond my control.
If you are driving fast enough you don't have time to take your hands off the wheel... Therefore Pdk is the only option.
I used to be a PDK naysayer, now I look forward to Porsche eliminating the Manual box. The only Manual box I would ever want to own is a CGT based on the reviews... But that's beyond my control.
When i was looking for an M3 back in 06 i was dead against the SMG and wanted a manual. When the dealer asked why i wanted a manual as most cars sold are SMG i said that i just want a manual, he said test drive an SMG and then make your mind up. I did and went for SMG and loved it.
So come forward to 2012 and my next new car was either going to be a new M3 DCT or if i could afford it a 911 PDK
You have to remember that the DCT's PDK's SMG's ect are actually manual boxes with electronic and actuactors doing the hard bit. It's not an auto box with a torque converter. So i would say you get the best of both worlds if you are willing to accept being a pussy for not having to depress the clutch. They are faster too. The only downside to these boxes is that you dont get the clutch control from pull off and you are always pulling away from idle, so no dumping the clutches and no wheelspins and hooning
So come forward to 2012 and my next new car was either going to be a new M3 DCT or if i could afford it a 911 PDK
You have to remember that the DCT's PDK's SMG's ect are actually manual boxes with electronic and actuactors doing the hard bit. It's not an auto box with a torque converter. So i would say you get the best of both worlds if you are willing to accept being a pussy for not having to depress the clutch. They are faster too. The only downside to these boxes is that you dont get the clutch control from pull off and you are always pulling away from idle, so no dumping the clutches and no wheelspins and hooning
SonnyM said:
PDK with Sport Plus, paddles and PSE is now better than Manual.
If you are driving fast enough you don't have time to take your hands off the wheel... Therefore Pdk is the only option.
I used to be a PDK naysayer, now I look forward to Porsche eliminating the Manual box. The only Manual box I would ever want to own is a CGT based on the reviews... But that's beyond my control.
that's okay if you are "driving fast enough you don't have time to take your hands off the wheel", but in the real (legal) world you would not be driving that fast. IMO I find auto's great for driving in town but very boring and uninvolved. Just my view. If you are driving fast enough you don't have time to take your hands off the wheel... Therefore Pdk is the only option.
I used to be a PDK naysayer, now I look forward to Porsche eliminating the Manual box. The only Manual box I would ever want to own is a CGT based on the reviews... But that's beyond my control.
Moog72 said:
Not to mention that SMGs, PDKs all seem a bit dim witted and leave you in too high a gear all the time when not in the Sport mode or the utterly-bonkers-for-the-road Sport Plus mode.
Drove a 981S PDK for a good few hours and it left me wanting a manual
I only ever leave mine in 'auto' mode when in traffic or occasionally on a motorway, otherwise it's sports manual. I can't comment on 981 as have not driven one yet, so fair enough.Drove a 981S PDK for a good few hours and it left me wanting a manual
LaurasOtherHalf said:
ok, ok.
i know that for years the manual v's tiptronic debate went on & on & was virtually impossible to win, simply because it was essentially the automatic v's manual debate & both those things appeal to different buyers.
The debate will be just the same as the PDK 'box is simply a better/less si know that for years the manual v's tiptronic debate went on & on & was virtually impossible to win, simply because it was essentially the automatic v's manual debate & both those things appeal to different buyers.
te automatic transmission.SS7
PDK auto is a million years ahead of the E92 M3 V8... or at least feels this way from the little i have been able to drive the 991.. will report further in a few weeks/months time.
But as good as the manual mode in the M3 is (holds gears, no way for kickdown to happen, fast and responsive, highly tunable with 6 different speeds, nice blips on the way down etc etc), it is bad in auto mode, sluggish, never shifts down on braking, no matter how aggressive, lag issue widely reported did get attended to but never eradicated.
Bottom line, M3 even in sport mode, and aggressive setting would not be driveable in auto on a fast b road.. i have a feeling the porker new one can.
The only thing i miss in the dual-clutch ones is.. the clutch control.. basically to avoid the car being jerky these boxes tend to slip a little which is annoying as you dont feel in exact control. But that aside.. they make me smile at every downblip, upshift, shifting mid corner on roads you don't know.. shortshifting if you get scared, shifting at last second because that corner is TIGHT... etc etc..
i do have a manual Elise.. and on track gives me great satisfactions, rewards, tacticle feel.. but if I had to keep only one of the 2 .. i know which one it would be, and it would have 2 clutches taking turns to please me.
But as good as the manual mode in the M3 is (holds gears, no way for kickdown to happen, fast and responsive, highly tunable with 6 different speeds, nice blips on the way down etc etc), it is bad in auto mode, sluggish, never shifts down on braking, no matter how aggressive, lag issue widely reported did get attended to but never eradicated.
Bottom line, M3 even in sport mode, and aggressive setting would not be driveable in auto on a fast b road.. i have a feeling the porker new one can.
The only thing i miss in the dual-clutch ones is.. the clutch control.. basically to avoid the car being jerky these boxes tend to slip a little which is annoying as you dont feel in exact control. But that aside.. they make me smile at every downblip, upshift, shifting mid corner on roads you don't know.. shortshifting if you get scared, shifting at last second because that corner is TIGHT... etc etc..
i do have a manual Elise.. and on track gives me great satisfactions, rewards, tacticle feel.. but if I had to keep only one of the 2 .. i know which one it would be, and it would have 2 clutches taking turns to please me.
nsm3 said:
SonnyM said:
If you are driving fast enough you don't have time to take your hands off the wheel... Therefore Pdk is the only option......The only Manual box I would ever want to own is a CGT based on the reviews... But that's beyond my control.
WTF! Really?DMC2 said:
nsm3 said:
SonnyM said:
If you are driving fast enough you don't have time to take your hands off the wheel... Therefore Pdk is the only option......The only Manual box I would ever want to own is a CGT based on the reviews... But that's beyond my control.
WTF! Really?
I would only consider a auto/dual clutch transmission if the car I was interested in had a poor gear change. One example is the M3 where the manual has a rather snatchy drive train which is difficult to drive smoothly and the gear change is also rather notchy so I would choose the DCT if I decided to get one.
The Porsche gear change is amongst the best I have ever driven and pedal placement is perfect for those heel/toe downchanges, I really think this is all part of the driving experience and to take that away for me only goes to dilute this.
I appreciate that perhaps I will eventually get a car with this type of transmission but from all the test drives I've had to date I've not been convinced that it provides more enjoyment in the cars I've been interested in buying.
The Porsche gear change is amongst the best I have ever driven and pedal placement is perfect for those heel/toe downchanges, I really think this is all part of the driving experience and to take that away for me only goes to dilute this.
I appreciate that perhaps I will eventually get a car with this type of transmission but from all the test drives I've had to date I've not been convinced that it provides more enjoyment in the cars I've been interested in buying.
Actus Reus said:
Bit of a tangent, but anybody got any experience of a 370Z and it's 'auto blip' rev matching software??
Yes it works and in a world where drivers can't even blip the throttle (let alone drive fast without having a hand off the wheel, LOL) it's very useful.For the rest of us who have basic driving skills, it's yet something else taken away, although I think you can turn it off, but you have to turn it off every time you start the car.
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