Discovery 4; too bling, or not too bling

[Digga]

Was reading about the Discovery 5 in Autocar a while ago (see link below) which was entitled "Disco heads back to its roots" and was pondering this.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/disco-h...

I've had two Disco 3's but aside from economic considerations during the crunch, have held off swapping to a D4 because to me there are one or two areas where it's gone a bit impractical, namely:

• No nice, big (removeable and washable) water bottle holders in front center console.
• Painted wheel arch brows instead of plastic, which will scratch up more.
• Ditto above for the rear bumper too.
• Useful (for rear passengers getting in and out, especailly off road) grab handles missing from front seat headrests.

Thinking back to the original Discovery, with Conran designed interior, the car was definitely not trying to be a Range Rover van, but the current cars virtually are. Is Land Rover's back to roots plan something other PHer's agree with?

[300bhp/ton]

Not sure I follow. The original Disco was fully intended to be a Range Rover, as to take it's place in the market so as to push the RR further up market.

As for bling, well that all a matter of personal opinion. However the Disco currently isn't cheap and certainly not in markets like the USA. At this higher price point people expect more bling for their money.

[Digga]

This from Wikki is pretty much as (a then Isuzu owner) I saw it:

Wikki said:

The Discovery was introduced into the United Kingdom in 1989. The company code-named the vehicle "Project Jay". The new model was based on the chassis and drivetrain of the more upmarket Range Rover, but with a lower price aimed at a larger market segment and intended to compete with Japanese offerings. This was the only Discovery generation with four-cylinder engines.

More here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_Rover_Discovery

[300bhp/ton]

Yes because at the time LR wanted to move the RR up market.

[Digga]

I always thought, orignally, it was deliberately angled between the Defender and RR but that as the Disco evolved, it was pushed up-market as the RR got more expensive.

[XTR2Turbo]

Yes the original car was more honest and cracking value in basic tdv6 manual form with 5 seats and coil suspension.

But it seems most people were buying HSEs and that's where the money is ...

But it does leave a huge gap between defender that is too rustic for most and a discovery.

[anonymous-user]

300bhp/ton said:

As for bling, well that all a matter of personal opinion. However the Disco currently isn't cheap and certainly not in markets like the USA. At this higher price point people expect more bling for their money.

A loaded LR4 (V8) here is $60k, a loaded FFRR $85k, so still a big difference considering they share a drivetrain, suspension, transmission etc..

I had an LR4 for the past 2 days and use them quite regularly. I think it's a great car and pitched just about right in terms of bling. It represents great value when compared to a FFRR and, if you have a family, makes great sense when compared to a Sport.

[A.J.M]

Yes it has got a bit blingy compared to how the D3 originally started with the black arches etc.

But the market wanted the changes, i still see it as a car fit for purpose as an all round family car and motorway cruiser.
I would still buy one.

[Digga]

Perhaps it's because I've had the D3 for a while now (although it's only got 45k on the clock) that I worry less about lugging stuff around in it and parking it in vague, obscure places whilst I go off fell running or mtb riding, and sort of think my next car might want to be a bit more utilitarian.

I'm wondering what the DC100 might turn out like, but also thinking that the very first Discos were only marginally more refined than Defenders.

[A.J.M]

I've just had my D3 for a month or so, but i've parked it in random places, took it off road after 4 days of ownership and used it to haul the remains on my back lawn in it. It get's treated like any other car, it just stands much taller than them and drinks more.

My mate's all love it, the rest of the family think it's a great car. It does stand out a bit in the college car park though...

I think the original disco would have been much more refined than a defender of the same era.

[SpeedMattersNot]

unrepentant said:

300bhp/ton said:

As for bling, well that all a matter of personal opinion. However the Disco currently isn't cheap and certainly not in markets like the USA. At this higher price point people expect more bling for their money.

A loaded LR4 (V8) here is $60k, a loaded FFRR $85k, so still a big difference considering they share a drivetrain, suspension, transmission etc..

I had an LR4 for the past 2 days and use them quite regularly. I think it's a great car and pitched just about right in terms of bling. It represents great value when compared to a FFRR and, if you have a family, makes great sense when compared to a Sport.

Out of curiosity, what's an LR4?

[Shaw Tarse]

SpeedMattersNot said:

Out of curiosity, what's an LR4?

I think it's the American term for the Discovery?

[mikeh501]

makes you wonder if the LR masterplan is to keep pushing the disco up and then introduce a new vehicle into a slot below. is this the future for the new defender in 2015? aka DC100. The last photos we saw of it was trying to be that "lifestyle" vehicle, and it would be the right price point 28-38k

[Digga]

I think LR have missed a lot of potential Defender sales worldwide, for various reasons, to the Japanese offerings, especially double-cab pick ups in the UK for example. One would hope the replacement is a bit more refined and is competitive on price....

[Trommel]

Re the Defender and double-cabs - completely, it has been discussed at great length here and elsewhere.

An early Discovery is a lot more refined than a contemporary Defender.

As the next RR Sport has seven seats that might make the next Discovery's position in the market moveable - there's certainly a big difference between an early base-model 3 and a new 4 (and not just in how much worse they've made it look).

[chappj]

This is exactly the debate I have been having with myself for the past 6 months. We currently have a 55 reg D3 S model with 110k miles on the clock. We do on avg 15k a year which includes towing a caravan and long haul European holidays. We had an extended test period for a D4 HSE and really didn't feel comfortable with the range rover level of bling. The lack of a manual option was the deciding factor, so we had a Defender XS 110 on test for 1 week. The family loved it and we very nearly purchased one, but pulled back once we considered properly the safety implications vs our current car.

This was all 6 months ago and a few technical niggles with the D3 (rear parking sensors failing, clutch dragging coming to a stop) we are back to where we left off.... A D4 is too bling in high spec form and in more basic GS spec not sufficiently better than our current D3 to justify the £££. Do we keep the D3 until the DC110 is released in 2015, or go with our hearts and buy a nearly new Defender XS, enjoy ownership of a wonderfully British car, albeit with no modern safety features (we have 3 children).

I'm really pleased to read others having similar thoughts re: LR pushing the Disco more upmarket, as most people I speak to about this can't understand why we didn't fall in love with th D4.

[camel_landy]

Hmmm... Some things of note here:

• LR4 is what the Disco 4 is known as in the USA.
• LR4 V8 vs FFRR... There is a lot different in the drive train. The engine an gearbox are the same but the suspension, chassis, setup, etc... Is completely different. The LR4 is similar to the RRSport as they are both built on the ‘T5’ platform. The RRSport uses the same chassis, 6” shorter and with a different ‘tune’ on the suspension.

Right, back to the OP & 'chappj':

DC100: That’s just a concept... You’d be foolish to hold out for that. The Defender replacement has already been delayed for several years!!

A top spec D4, is a very smart car and very high spec but you can get more basic spec cars if you want. Personally, I like the higher trim levels and I find it also helps with the residual values when you come to get rid of it. Marks on the leather come off nicely with baby-wipes...

Exterior trim: There is no getting away from the fact that the wheel arches & bumpers are colour coded these days. What you will find though is that careful choice of colour will help minimise the visual impact of any scratches. Buckingham Blue or Black will show the slightest of scratch where as one of the Silver or Grey colours will disguise them quite nicely... Just go and have a look at any of the LR Experience vehicles; That’s why they’re all silver. I find that the Tonga Green on my RRSport hides the scratches nicely too.

Auto: What’s wrong with the auto? If anything the auto is better for towing than a manual and that 8spd auto currently fitted is lush. I find an auto sooo much better for towing as you don’t run the risk of trashing your clutch. The 2x areas where the clutch can get a beasting is when you’re manoeuvring the trailer to your pitch or having to slip the clutch that little bit more when pulling out of junctions. Thing is, if you still want to feel as though you’re ‘In Control’, you can always use Command Shift but frankly once you get used to the auto you’ll wonder why you ever bothered!

D4 Safety: The D4 is a very safe car and has a number of safety features designed specifically around towing (over & above what’s on the D3). Check out this video for Trailer Stability Assist (look at the tyre smoke at 0:19):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aDTvql4OYk

Then here’s some details about Tow Assist:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEc7_HCNugY

Basically, it makes manoeuvring any trailer an absolute doddle!

The D3 & D4 are both amazingly practical cars, both are very difficult to beat and I am surprised that you didn’t like the D4. Did the person you were dealing with take you though the points I’ve just covered??? However, you might well get to the point where the £££ needed to be spent on your D3 helps justify a move to a newer D4.

M

[excel monkey]

XTR2Turbo said:

Yes the original car was more honest and cracking value in basic tdv6 manual form with 5 seats and coil suspension.

This is an interesting thread. Had a look at some pictures online, and didn't realise the Disco 3 was so functional and utilitarian inside (correctly, IMHO) compared to the Disco 4. The early 2005 coil spring base models look good value these days at £8k or so.

[Blue62]

It's the way the market has moved, fewer Disco owners really want or need the off road ability, according to their focussed marketing stuff (my compamny supplies LR) today's Disco owner sees it as a pratical, luxurious family car that can go anywhere (not that they will) and seats 7 when required. I have a 4 HSE and think it's a good all rounder, I bought it because we need to tow (given where I live we also need at least 1 x FWD), but I would rather have a decent estate car for everyday use. Great car, but it has moved on a lot from the D3 and appreciate why that won't suit some, the existence of the Evoque sums it all up nicely.

[Digga]

camel_landy said:

...D4 Safety: The D4 is a very safe car and has a number of safety features designed specifically around towing (over & above what’s on the D3). Check out this video for Trailer Stability Assist (look at the tyre smoke at 0:19):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aDTvql4OYk

Then here’s some details about Tow Assist:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEc7_HCNugY

Basically, it makes manoeuvring any trailer an absolute doddle!

The D3 & D4 are both amazingly practical cars, both are very difficult to beat and I am surprised that you didn’t like the D4. Did the person you were dealing with take you though the points I’ve just covered??? However, you might well get to the point where the £££ needed to be spent on your D3 helps justify a move to a newer D4.

M

Thanks for that video link - impressive. I don't actually do too much towing, but I do use the load capacity, off road capabilities and on-road (snow in winter) capabilities though, a lot.

Don't misunderstand me, it is not that I don't like teh D4, but more that IMHO it has moved further up-market again in terms of trim and serviceability. The Dicso seems to get progressively more bling and less workmanlike as times goes on.

O/T As a comparison, I did borrow one of our work's Defender 90's for comparission last week. There was a lot to like but I don't think I could live with one full-time and the refinement of the Disco was pronoounced when I swapped back.