Pay attention : A graph
Discussion
Erm... yeah, that's exactly what we've been saying - since cameras have been introduced, the rate of decline of deaths has slowed down, stopped and now reversed. Your graph shows this perfectly (and the scam only _really_ took off around '98 or '99).
If you showed figures from 97 -> 04 the picture is much, much scarier.
>> Edited by FastShow on Tuesday 24th August 10:23
If you showed figures from 97 -> 04 the picture is much, much scarier.
>> Edited by FastShow on Tuesday 24th August 10:23
How about a graph from 98-03.....
btw: I am not a lover of speed cameras by ANY stretch of the imagination, in fact i HATE them as much as anyone on here, BUT I am sure they have saved more lives than they have caused.
Only a fool would argue otherwise imo!
THINK what I have said, before you try to shoot me down in flames......
btw: I am not a lover of speed cameras by ANY stretch of the imagination, in fact i HATE them as much as anyone on here, BUT I am sure they have saved more lives than they have caused.
Only a fool would argue otherwise imo!
THINK what I have said, before you try to shoot me down in flames......
Wacky Racer said:
btw: I am not a lover of speed cameras by ANY stretch of the imagination, in fact i HATE them as much as anyone on here, BUT I am sure they have saved more lives than they have caused.
Only a fool would argue otherwise imo!
I completely disagree - if they've saved so much as one life, I'd be amazed, but the fact that the accident rate is increasing proves that they either don't work at all, or they just cause the accidents to happen elsewhere.
Wacky Racer said:
btw: I am not a lover of speed cameras by ANY stretch of the imagination, in fact i HATE them as much as anyone on here, BUT I am sure they have saved more lives than they have caused.
Only a fool would argue otherwise imo!
is that so !
tell that to the 5500 now dead !
"Speed Camera Policy Responsible For 5500 Deaths" says the The Association of British Drivers."
www.abd.org.uk/pr/376.htm
As i recall government figures said they had saved 100 lifes in the last year ! mmmm 5500 - 100 good trade of !
Oh but they will make an estimated £60 * 3 million tickets this year work it out
all the best
stef
>> Edited by sjpage on Tuesday 24th August 10:47
Wacky Racer said:
How about a graph from 98-03.....
btw: I am not a lover of speed cameras by ANY stretch of the imagination, in fact i HATE them as much as anyone on here, BUT I am sure they have saved more lives than they have caused.
Only a fool would argue otherwise imo!
THINK what I have said, before you try to shoot me down in flames......
Are you suggesting people who lives have been saved by cameras, ie none or very close to none, refrain from sex as a result and therefore speed cameras help keep the population down. Or, are you suggesting the speed cameras themselves are having children therby causing life?
I ask merely out of curiosity
Streetcop is of course correct
it's this governments Speed Camera Policy that is Responsible (significant reduction in broad-based road safety education and police road traffic patrols www.abd.org.uk/pr/376.htm ) for the number of lifes that have been lost
all the best
stef
help distribute the truth
www.thecameralies.cjb.net
>> Edited by sjpage on Tuesday 24th August 10:54
it's this governments Speed Camera Policy that is Responsible (significant reduction in broad-based road safety education and police road traffic patrols www.abd.org.uk/pr/376.htm ) for the number of lifes that have been lost
all the best
stef
help distribute the truth
www.thecameralies.cjb.net
>> Edited by sjpage on Tuesday 24th August 10:54
Streetcop said:
Wacky racer is obvously correct in the fact that they save more than they kill.
The problem lies with the lack of trafpol as a result of increased camera locations. Thus driver behaviour has deteriorated, knowing the chances of seeing a trafpol car is slight.
...so the overall anti-speeding policy, which incorporates scameras, has caused un-necessary deaths via deterioration in driver behaviour.
The Government obviously needs to rethink it's policies
Upsetting millions of motorists , by handing out tickets left , right and center is obviously not the answer
also there is still thought that speed cameras themselfs cause accidents by casuing motorist to focus on speed rather than safety
Upsetting millions of motorists , by handing out tickets left , right and center is obviously not the answer
also there is still thought that speed cameras themselfs cause accidents by casuing motorist to focus on speed rather than safety
deeen said:
...so the overall anti-speeding policy, which incorporates scameras, has caused un-necessary deaths via deterioration in driver behaviour.
Not true unfortunately..but i'm especially glad you have brought this up. I've been waiting for some time to get this off my chest.
What caused the lack of trafpol is this..
The government were sick of hearing motorists bleating when stopped by trafpol. Complaints about "Don't you police have anything better to do?", "Where were you when my car was stolen?", "Hit the motorist in the pocket rather than catching muggers, thieves, rapist etc.."...
So the government think...'oh joe public...have it your way'...so in my force...cameras went up 300% and the Trafpol dept was halved and the officers that left went onto robbery/shoplifting squads.
Moan moan moan....gets us motorists somewhere doesn't it..
Street
Maybe thats just the point
not to have a go Streetcop as i respect the work you all do
though maybe the motorist should just be left alone and the biggest focus should be placed on crime. As I fear it is invertible that there will always be deaths on the roads and no one goes out with the intent to have a crash or cause harm unlike thiefs, murderers , robbers etc.
if you accidently drift over the speed limit it is just that and that is what you get punished for an accident.
One of the most annoying things is that ·The UK government is flagrantly disregarding both European and International law by prosecuting motorists without first honoring their legal right to silence, or confirming that they understand those rights. The Courts have interpreted Parliamentary legislation to take away the rights given, which appears to put them in violation of Art 3.1 of the Human Rights Act UK
if your a murderer, Rapist mugger etc you have this right !
if you drive in Spain or Italy to me anyways they seem to have the correct balance. but thats just my opinion
then again they have lot better roads than us !
I suppose we shouldn't really worry as the way our roads are going you will never be able to get up to 30 because of the amount of traffic or is it because of the lack of good roads !
all the best stef
>> Edited by sjpage on Tuesday 24th August 11:18
>> Edited by sjpage on Tuesday 24th August 11:22
not to have a go Streetcop as i respect the work you all do
though maybe the motorist should just be left alone and the biggest focus should be placed on crime. As I fear it is invertible that there will always be deaths on the roads and no one goes out with the intent to have a crash or cause harm unlike thiefs, murderers , robbers etc.
if you accidently drift over the speed limit it is just that and that is what you get punished for an accident.
One of the most annoying things is that ·The UK government is flagrantly disregarding both European and International law by prosecuting motorists without first honoring their legal right to silence, or confirming that they understand those rights. The Courts have interpreted Parliamentary legislation to take away the rights given, which appears to put them in violation of Art 3.1 of the Human Rights Act UK
if your a murderer, Rapist mugger etc you have this right !
if you drive in Spain or Italy to me anyways they seem to have the correct balance. but thats just my opinion
then again they have lot better roads than us !
I suppose we shouldn't really worry as the way our roads are going you will never be able to get up to 30 because of the amount of traffic or is it because of the lack of good roads !
all the best stef
>> Edited by sjpage on Tuesday 24th August 11:18
>> Edited by sjpage on Tuesday 24th August 11:22
sjpage said:
Maybe thats just the point
not to have a go Streetcop as i respect the work you all do
appreciated mate..
sjpage said:
though maybe the motorist should just be left alone and the biggest focus should be placed on crime.
Problem is, we're a car cultured country. In addition, criminals use vehicles and we, as the police, need to be able to meet and match them.
sjpage said:
As I fear it is invertible that there will always be deaths on the roads and no one goes out with the intent to have a crash or cause harm unlike thiefs, murderers , robbers etc.
Perhaps not, but people do drive dangerously, without car and also under the influence of drink and drugs. They also speed in inappropriate place and such actions ruin the lives of many many people.
Vehicles are here to stay and the laws governing their uses will also.
Street
S-C, I fear you are being naieve, but i cant spell it.
In my opinion, the Gov realised that cameras were cheaper than cops so they thought, "Aha, we can be seen to be doing something about law and order AND save money!" Imagine their delight when they found these cameras could even turn a profit! Trafpol cant compete with that...
Somewhere along the way they lost sight of the idea of maitaining / improving road safety, unfortunately. The focus on speed is not going to improve road safety whether it comes from cameras or trafpol.
Indeed, as you say, it has led to a decline in driving standards, and this is why the accident stats are rising again, i believe.
In my opinion, the Gov realised that cameras were cheaper than cops so they thought, "Aha, we can be seen to be doing something about law and order AND save money!" Imagine their delight when they found these cameras could even turn a profit! Trafpol cant compete with that...
Somewhere along the way they lost sight of the idea of maitaining / improving road safety, unfortunately. The focus on speed is not going to improve road safety whether it comes from cameras or trafpol.
Indeed, as you say, it has led to a decline in driving standards, and this is why the accident stats are rising again, i believe.
deeen said:
S-C, I fear you are being naieve, but i cant spell it.
You're not far off...'Naive'....(the mineral water 'Evian' is 'Naive' spelt backwards...makes you think..doesn't it?
Anyway, back to topic;
deeen said:
In my opinion, the Gov realised that cameras were cheaper than cops so they thought, "Aha, we can be seen to be doing something about law and order AND save money!" Imagine their delight when they found these cameras could even turn a profit! Trafpol cant compete with that...
I can agree with that Deeen..Even I in my best year 2001, only made £30,000 revenue.
deeen said:
Somewhere along the way they lost sight of the idea of maitaining / improving road safety, unfortunately. The focus on speed is not going to improve road safety whether it comes from cameras or trafpol.
Yes and no. Nowadays there are more partnership working between the police, highways agencies, councils etc than ever before for the engineering aspect of road safety. Extra paint, pedestrian refuges, removal and relocation of traffic lights, crossings, bus stops etc.
deeen said:
Indeed, as you say, it has led to a decline in driving standards, and this is why the accident stats are rising again, i believe.
Absolutely, but I also believe the whining and whinging letters from motorists stopped for driving offences has also contributed to the sway towards cameras instead of trafpol.
Street
Streetcop I dare say though and you could probably confirm this , the majority of those who speed aggressively , Driver dangerously etc. probably are driving illegally anyway and deserve to be caught
Is this the Answer then ?
maybe we should introduce a system where you can only buy petrol for a car if the petrol station can verify on a computer picture ID of the person (from driving license picture stored on DVLA) and that the vehicle they are filling up is registered to that person and that they have insurance, tax , mot etc. and that there are no warrants out on them
Surly this would get most of the Scum of the road, I know people would try and work ways around it but it would be a start then the average law abiding motorist who may moderately drift over the speed limit now and then will be left alone
>> Edited by sjpage on Tuesday 24th August 11:39
sjpage said:
Streetcop I dare say though and you could probably confirm this , the majority of those who speed aggressively , Driver dangerously etc. probably are driving illegally anyway and deserve to be caught
Unfortunately not...the speeders, dangerous drivers and road rage merchants usually have all their documents and are just w*nkers but have some money to pay for insurance etc. (sometimes quite well off).
On the contrary to this, the illegal (no licence/no insurance) characters driver sensibly, safely and discreetly, so as to not draw attention to themselves.
This is why I generally only stop boy-racers when they are doing wrong as opposed to simple document checks, as IMO any 17-25 year old that drives a Corsa/Saxo etc with all the trimings should be expecting a stop and will be in possession of all the relevant docs.
sjpage said:
Is this the Answer then ?
maybe we should introduce a system where you can only buy petrol for a car if the petrol station can verify on a computer picture ID of the person (from driving license picture stored on DVLA) and that the vehicle they are filling up is registered to that person and that they have insurance, tax , mot etc. and that there are no warrants out on them
Apparently not...we discussed this on here recently with the introductions of ANPR at certain petrol station. Pistonheaders were mostly against such a system.
Street
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