Speed 12 - was it really that mental?

[mat777]

After quite a lot of time spent driving a TVR Speed 12 on GT5 recently, I keep wondering just what went on with regards to manufacturing the road car then deciding not to. I gather that at the time, Peter Wheeler decalred it was just too insane to safely use on the road.
However, what strikes me as odd are 2 facts - firstly, the power to weight ration cant be much different from various extreme caterfields (Westfield SEight springs to mind here), and secondly, TVR was already known for making insane, overpowered and sometimes ill-handling road rockets. So was the car *really* even beyond TVR/ SEight levels of insanity or was it killed off by lack of funds or politics or something else?

[C2james]

probably funding and interest id say.

[FlybyWyre]

They were impressively powered. 800 bhp and carbon fibre body, detuned to 600 for racing. I did ask during a factory tour if they had actually made the 25 that was required for homologation. No answer, so if you have one I reckon it's a rare beasty.

[forzaminardi]

mat777 said:

After quite a lot of time spent driving a TVR Speed 12 on GT5 recently, I keep wondering just what went on with regards to manufacturing the road car then deciding not to. I gather that at the time, Peter Wheeler decalred it was just too insane to safely use on the road.
However, what strikes me as odd are 2 facts - firstly, the power to weight ration cant be much different from various extreme caterfields (Westfield SEight springs to mind here), and secondly, TVR was already known for making insane, overpowered and sometimes ill-handling road rockets. So was the car *really* even beyond TVR/ SEight levels of insanity or was it killed off by lack of funds or politics or something else?

Was it really a serious project at any point? It seems more to me (albeit I've not been a huge follower of the details of TVR) that it served a purpose as a 'mythical' halo model that built the reputation of TVRs being a bit wild and wooly thanks to its alleged reputation, but without that status necessarily being tested by a production run?

[hairykrishna]

I always thought it was a bit of myth building too - all that guff about 'broke the dyno', 'too dangerous to sell' etc. Not to say that the couple they did knock together weren't epic of course, but there's a lot of difference between cobbling together a few racing prototypes and actually putting something into production.

[Baryonyx]

It would have no doubt been a crazy car. Even just a bog spec TVR can be a handful to push on in! It would have been an amazing car had it ever made it to the road properly. How many other GT1 racers do you see on the public highway?

I'm not convinced it's monstrous power output or penchant for mischief was the reason for it's downfall mind. That's never stopped manufacturers selling fast cars before. More likely I suspect it was due to the increasingly murky financial wranglings and internal politics of TVR at the time.

[Jonnas]

There will be a proper TVR buff along in a minute to put us all straight. I might be wrong but isn't someone currently building another one from a collection of parts?

Mental car, would love to see (and hear) one driven in anger......

ETA: Thread here..... http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Edited by Jonnas on Tuesday 2nd October 17:28

[300bhp/ton]

I guess another point to consider, even if it is a sad one. But could they actually build them? TVR was having a hard enough time keepin the S6 power plants running. Maybe there were some major R&D issues they hadn't been able to solve for a production version. And then there's the cost aspect. Even if they could build it as a production model at what price would it have had to of been to have been profitable?

[Chris Stott]

Don't know aout in real life, but the car is stupid in GT5.

It will happily spins its wheels all the way through 4th and 5th gear whilst wearing the equivalent of road legal track day tyres ('sports hards')... in anything lower than 5th, it will spin up in a straight line on the power, in 5th and 6th, it spins up immediately if you have any lock applied.

Surprisingly, understeer is a much bigger problem when trying to drive it quickly than oversteer though.

I can't beleive the real thing would be as difficult to drive as in GT5.

[J4CKO]

Would be fairly easy to replicate,

Cerbera with a broken engine, probably hard to find but sure there will be out there somewhere.......

Some kind of supercharged American V8 + suitable gearbox

Race suspension

perhaps weld in some extra strength

Fashion some wider wings

Bigger Wheels/tyres



Crystal Meth

[Baryonyx]

GT5 feels pretty weightless and arcadey though it's still a beast in Forza 4, which has a much more realistic feeling of weight and natural cornering physics.

Ignoring the supposition that it will feel anything like that in real life (as I seriously doubt the designers of either game have even seen one in the flesh, never mind driven one), it should still be a crazy car to drive. Those stats, that design...

[Scrambled]

Baryonyx said:

GT5 feels pretty weightless and arcadey though it's still a beast in Forza 4, which has a much more realistic feeling of weight and natural cornering physics.

.....but is still nothing like driving a real car. Have we really come to a point where computer games are we evaluate a car or are the kids on early tonight.

[J4CKO]

I went back to GT5 the other day and it felt rubbish after Forza, dont care which is the more realistic, I kind of like a balance of fun and a plausibility.

[Grenoble]

For those that remember him, this thread is what NickTheBassist was put on this earth for...

[Roo]

Jonnas said:

There will be a proper TVR buff along in a minute to put us all straight. I might be wrong but isn't someone currently building another one from a collection of parts?

Mental car, would love to see (and hear) one driven in anger......

ETA: Thread here..... http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Edited by Jonnas on Tuesday 2nd October 17:28

That's a Cerbera Speed 12 which is a different car.

Oh, and he has two of them.

[300bhp/ton]

Thinking about it more and more, the "it was too powerful to sell" really was just bullcrap.

TVR already de-tuned the engine to 675hp for race use. So could easily have offered that, or maybe even a 500-550hp version for sale if it really was too unruly. 500+hp back then would still have been somewhat of a anomaly and a lot more powerful than any other TVR.

Shame really, TVR are one of my all time favourite car makers

[DJRC]

Well to quote John Quick..."It was just sodding evil."

The "too quick to sell" story is a typical Wheeler 1/2 truth. Yes its sorta true, but not how reported. More like the 12, a Tuscan trying to follow it and Mile End Lane out past Singleton Hall, with JR, Quicky and Anderson.

[pwd95]

One of the originals is now back to full fitness.........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=0BR1lx4tD_...

[OldSpeed]

[ajprice]

Sort of related... Did the original Speed 12 (Project 7/12) ever get any road versions? I've only ever seen the concept and racing car