Easy job to hard long hours job for career progression
Discussion
Hi All,
I have a conundrum. I'm a programmer, my current job is easy, I can wear what I want, I can come in when I want (9:30-10:30) and leave at around 18:00. Nobody ever shouts, I spend some of my day firing nerf guns at my colleagues. Because I'm relatively good at what I do, I can get away with working at 75% most of the time and still be praised at the year end review. However, I've been here now 5 years (since graduating), and I've pretty much lost interest. I've become lethargic and would like to move on, and the longer I spend here the harder it gets to move. I've learnt pretty much as much as I can here.
So I started interviewing in quite a few places, unfortunately all the best places I didn't get in to by a whisper because of my lack of financial experience, which is fair enough, and they all said to try again in a years time when I have the right XP.
However, I have now been offered a job, and that job is less than ideal. It will allow me to get the relevant experience to go to one of the better places. But I fear it is going to be much harder, and possibly a shock for me. I fear it will be 10+ hour days every day, it will be dress in a suit every day. The software engineering at this place is non-existent, it's all driven by money and delivering new products NOW, or YESTERDAY, and as such the software practices have gone out the window, which won't be pleasant.
The pros for taking this job are the experience, and the money, which will (hopefully) be much higher than I'm currently on.
But the cons are everything else, people, place, principles, soul, work life balance.
I've kind of convinced myself that it's a good idea because: I have no other offers, I have to leave this company now to avoid career suicide, I will only do it for 1-2 years before moving on, more money.
I've been interviewing for a few months now, been rejected by 3 'good jobs' all with the same excuse, "great technically, but needs a bit of financial experience".
Am I doing this wrong? Should I stick with what I currently have?
I have a conundrum. I'm a programmer, my current job is easy, I can wear what I want, I can come in when I want (9:30-10:30) and leave at around 18:00. Nobody ever shouts, I spend some of my day firing nerf guns at my colleagues. Because I'm relatively good at what I do, I can get away with working at 75% most of the time and still be praised at the year end review. However, I've been here now 5 years (since graduating), and I've pretty much lost interest. I've become lethargic and would like to move on, and the longer I spend here the harder it gets to move. I've learnt pretty much as much as I can here.
So I started interviewing in quite a few places, unfortunately all the best places I didn't get in to by a whisper because of my lack of financial experience, which is fair enough, and they all said to try again in a years time when I have the right XP.
However, I have now been offered a job, and that job is less than ideal. It will allow me to get the relevant experience to go to one of the better places. But I fear it is going to be much harder, and possibly a shock for me. I fear it will be 10+ hour days every day, it will be dress in a suit every day. The software engineering at this place is non-existent, it's all driven by money and delivering new products NOW, or YESTERDAY, and as such the software practices have gone out the window, which won't be pleasant.
The pros for taking this job are the experience, and the money, which will (hopefully) be much higher than I'm currently on.
But the cons are everything else, people, place, principles, soul, work life balance.
I've kind of convinced myself that it's a good idea because: I have no other offers, I have to leave this company now to avoid career suicide, I will only do it for 1-2 years before moving on, more money.
I've been interviewing for a few months now, been rejected by 3 'good jobs' all with the same excuse, "great technically, but needs a bit of financial experience".
Am I doing this wrong? Should I stick with what I currently have?
randlemarcus said:
I'd stick with what you have over what you seems to be prepared to accept. Step up the moving on work - why is FS so important to you, other than the money aspect?
Have you tried some of the big SI's - most of them that I've worked with could really do with some quality SE onshore.
I suppose it's the money aspect. I could go other places, but I have friends in hedge funds who really enjoy their work, solve interesting problems, and have 9->5 jobs with not much stress, and get paid more than is reasonable, which are the 'good jobs' I was referring to. I could go anywhere really, but I don't intend on living in London for the rest of my life, so would prefer to sacrifice some time now to get the money for a deposit for a house sometime.Have you tried some of the big SI's - most of them that I've worked with could really do with some quality SE onshore.
TBH the work I'm going in to could be really interesting, and when I was being interviewed I kept thinking 'wow I could really make this place better', but equally, it sounds like I might not have time to make anything better because MONEY NOW SOFTWARE LATER.
mattnunn said:
What's your skill set and what industry are you in at the moment?
I'd say get out, 5 years is too long for a software engineer to be doing the same thing and firing Nerf guns is a health and safety hazard.
My skill set roughly: very good at C++, my CV explains it a bit further.I'd say get out, 5 years is too long for a software engineer to be doing the same thing and firing Nerf guns is a health and safety hazard.
I'm in financial software at the moment, but I work on very low level stuff so know nothing about the financial side of anything really. But I could optimise your code to death.
Salgar said:
mattnunn said:
What's your skill set and what industry are you in at the moment?
I'd say get out, 5 years is too long for a software engineer to be doing the same thing and firing Nerf guns is a health and safety hazard.
My skill set roughly: very good at C++, my CV explains it a bit further.I'd say get out, 5 years is too long for a software engineer to be doing the same thing and firing Nerf guns is a health and safety hazard.
I'm in financial software at the moment, but I work on very low level stuff so know nothing about the financial side of anything really. But I could optimise your code to death.
I'd say get some embedded and scripting experience somwhere for a year an then go contracting, otherwise you'll ending up taking a team leader / managment job you don't really want just to get the cash or feel like you're getting somewhere or staying working at 75% and becoming extremely bitter and twisted.
Especially if you have no geographical ties but there is enough work around the big cities you could contract for 20 years and never have to do unreasonable commutes or long stints away from home.
If you're ambitious and aspire to jigher office, then a move every 3 years is about right in order to gain new competences and experiences. Each of those moves should include a 10-20% improvement in total remuneration package and each new role should be more demanding than the last. If you're not at all ambitious, stick to the nerf guns. Good luck!
accept the job on your terms - i.e. that you implement a much more rigorous approach to software engineering and need the authority to be able to push back on those who would rather release an inferior product quickly.
do this for year or so, turn things round, looks amazing on the CV, look for new more suitable role.
do this for year or so, turn things round, looks amazing on the CV, look for new more suitable role.
Salgar said:
But the cons are everything else, people, place, principles, soul, work life balance.
Despite your reasoning, those are massive reasons to steer well clear. I take my work very seriously, and work very hard. But I enjoy it. If I was doing my job without the enjoyment, I would be heading towards a state where I would resign or walk out without having another job lined up.Can't you try and take on extra responsibilities at your current place? Ask for more challenges?
You even mentioned that the money would only 'hopefully' be better. Sod that. For the disadvantages of the job you mentioned (and described other than those in the quote above) I would be seeking a HUGE increase on my current salary just to take the edge of the s
t job I would have to drag myself out of bed every morning for. Even then I would still probably steer clear.I'm in software and have spent the last 15 years moving to different roles with more responsibility and the end result is I'm in a job I hate.
Lots of meetings and stress, everything is always required yesterday and then you have the politics.
My main regret was I didn't take a research route, maybe a PhD or did something totally different.
Everyone is different of course but over the years I have met the odd contractor or two that have worked in the city and not one of them ever said they look back with found memories.
Lots of meetings and stress, everything is always required yesterday and then you have the politics.
My main regret was I didn't take a research route, maybe a PhD or did something totally different.
Everyone is different of course but over the years I have met the odd contractor or two that have worked in the city and not one of them ever said they look back with found memories.
Have you talked to your current employer? Surely there are promotions you could go for?.
I left a company i loved working for to further my career had been there nearly 12 years in a few roles, first job was hell, i handed my notice in after 8 months, second was better but still dodgy, luckily my original employer offered me a job back there at a different site, i took it.
Dont rush to throw away a good work environment, id try to develop there more.
I left a company i loved working for to further my career had been there nearly 12 years in a few roles, first job was hell, i handed my notice in after 8 months, second was better but still dodgy, luckily my original employer offered me a job back there at a different site, i took it.
Dont rush to throw away a good work environment, id try to develop there more.
DJRC said:
When you are young always take the money and the challenge. It gives you 10 solid years then to cherry pick what you want in your 30s to build your life/career.
Yes.Change job! DO IT NOW! (Even if you weren't thinking of changing, working somewhere where you regularly shoot nerf guns is just not good for you in the long run.) Changing job never hurt anybody. Quite the opposite, in fact. So, leave your old job, start the new one. It's probably too late for tomorrow, so you'll have to resign on Wednesday now. Just taking some kind of action, any action, will make you feel better immediately.
If you don't like your new job, or they don't like you, you can always just move on again.
If your not sure about it, don't take it... the grass is not always greener.
I once took a job as the pay was double, I was there 4 days before leaving the company car and all equipment in the company car park with the keys through the letter box.
The people, the job, and the atmopshere were awful. None of this came across at the interviews or when being shown around the company before accepting it.
I turned a job down last week that paid £180k... because money really isn't everything, I'm much more interested in worklife balance now days, and would have had to sell my soul for a year for the £180k whilst working in germany Sunday to Friday.
I once took a job as the pay was double, I was there 4 days before leaving the company car and all equipment in the company car park with the keys through the letter box.
The people, the job, and the atmopshere were awful. None of this came across at the interviews or when being shown around the company before accepting it.
I turned a job down last week that paid £180k... because money really isn't everything, I'm much more interested in worklife balance now days, and would have had to sell my soul for a year for the £180k whilst working in germany Sunday to Friday.
I took a 30% pay cut to gain experience. I can't last too long in this position- there are only so many cans of baked beans you can eat in a week, plus loosing all the toys if I stay here for any length of time. I knew this at the start but have to play the long game, hopefully something will pop up soon.
Hey all,
I appreciate all the different opinions here. I've just got the confirmation about how much they're going to offer me and it's £14k more than I'm on now.
I will reply more fully with my thoughts on everyones opinion when i'm not at work, but I'm leaning towards taking it.
I also have another interview tomorrow with a much better company, but it's also a much harder place to get in to (You've probably heard of them, everytime you open your browser)
I appreciate all the different opinions here. I've just got the confirmation about how much they're going to offer me and it's £14k more than I'm on now.
I will reply more fully with my thoughts on everyones opinion when i'm not at work, but I'm leaning towards taking it.
I also have another interview tomorrow with a much better company, but it's also a much harder place to get in to (You've probably heard of them, everytime you open your browser)
Salgar said:
Hey all,
I appreciate all the different opinions here. I've just got the confirmation about how much they're going to offer me and it's £14k more than I'm on now.
I will reply more fully with my thoughts on everyones opinion when i'm not at work, but I'm leaning towards taking it.
I also have another interview tomorrow with a much better company, but it's also a much harder place to get in to (You've probably heard of them, everytime you open your browser)
take itI appreciate all the different opinions here. I've just got the confirmation about how much they're going to offer me and it's £14k more than I'm on now.
I will reply more fully with my thoughts on everyones opinion when i'm not at work, but I'm leaning towards taking it.
I also have another interview tomorrow with a much better company, but it's also a much harder place to get in to (You've probably heard of them, everytime you open your browser)
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