I was an idiot last night - double white line question
Discussion
Firstly, this is a confession, I was in the wrong and realised immediately but whilst I immediately learnt from the experience I'd also like to discuss what I should have done.
A map link to set the scene
I was leaving the M5 heading East along the A369. It's a road I've driven frequently, it's a NSL/60mph stretch, normally with too much traffic to warrant overtaking. There is a stretch between 'High Street' and 'St George's Hill' that has good visibility and used to have broken lines allowing you to overtake dawdlers.
As I came up behind a driver who was electing to do to 30mph along this stretch with no signs up getting up to speed. No problem, I'll just overtake them on that stretch. I prepare my overtake, it's dark but well lit, as I come around the corner I can see that it's clear, there are broken white lines and the overtake is on.
As I'm beside the other driver I then notice up ahead that the broken white lines become solid double lines and my choices are; a) continue the overtake and cross back to the left (crossing from right to left across the double whites) or b) back off from the overtake and more than likely still have to cross left across the double whites.
I chose 'A' and I think I was in the wrong... however I can't seem to find anything in the Highway Code about what to do when you find yourself on the opposite side of the road when double whites start.
Looking back I don't know whether I could have had better observation and seen the double white lines, I genuinely doubt it. I've previously overtaken on that stretch but before the lines had changed, clearly my 'local knowledge' was wrong. I was right to consider the overtake, the other driver showed no signs of speeding up from 30mph.
I basically feel like a complete t
t but I can't think how I could have done it differently having found myself in that position. I also can't see anything in the HWC stating what I should/shouldn't do.
Over to you guys.
A map link to set the scene
I was leaving the M5 heading East along the A369. It's a road I've driven frequently, it's a NSL/60mph stretch, normally with too much traffic to warrant overtaking. There is a stretch between 'High Street' and 'St George's Hill' that has good visibility and used to have broken lines allowing you to overtake dawdlers.
As I came up behind a driver who was electing to do to 30mph along this stretch with no signs up getting up to speed. No problem, I'll just overtake them on that stretch. I prepare my overtake, it's dark but well lit, as I come around the corner I can see that it's clear, there are broken white lines and the overtake is on.
As I'm beside the other driver I then notice up ahead that the broken white lines become solid double lines and my choices are; a) continue the overtake and cross back to the left (crossing from right to left across the double whites) or b) back off from the overtake and more than likely still have to cross left across the double whites.
I chose 'A' and I think I was in the wrong... however I can't seem to find anything in the Highway Code about what to do when you find yourself on the opposite side of the road when double whites start.
Looking back I don't know whether I could have had better observation and seen the double white lines, I genuinely doubt it. I've previously overtaken on that stretch but before the lines had changed, clearly my 'local knowledge' was wrong. I was right to consider the overtake, the other driver showed no signs of speeding up from 30mph.
I basically feel like a complete t
t but I can't think how I could have done it differently having found myself in that position. I also can't see anything in the HWC stating what I should/shouldn't do.Over to you guys.
They changed the lines when they put the multiple occupancy lane going the other way in recently. I can't remember if there are any deflection arrows after you come past the traffic lights to say there's going to be a stretch of double white lines.
I always remember 'more paint, more danger'.
I always remember 'more paint, more danger'.
randlemarcus said:
I usually use the great big massive arrows as a hint that the white lines are about to become solid. If there aren't any, how the heck are non-locals to know when the lines change?
That's a good point, I don't recall seeing any arrows but I'll drive that way tonight and see if there are any.Are the arrows mandatory? i.e. are they 'always' there?
7db said:
Yes - there must be arrows unless the DWL system starts at a traffic island.
Thanks, I'll take a look tonight. As I said in my OP, I realise I was wrong, I hold my hands up. If I missed obvious signs then I've got to use this as an experience to learn from. I feel really stty about it and annoyed with myself 
MagicalTrevor said:
7db said:
Yes - there must be arrows unless the DWL system starts at a traffic island.
Thanks, I'll take a look tonight. As I said in my OP, I realise I was wrong, I hold my hands up. If I missed obvious signs then I've got to use this as an experience to learn from. I feel really stty about it and annoyed with myself There are more important things to worry about than this. If this really is all that's troubling you at the moment, congratulations.
MagicalTrevor said:
Great Pretender said:
My friend,
There are more important things to worry about than this. If this really is all that's troubling you at the moment, congratulations.
When you put it like that There are more important things to worry about than this. If this really is all that's troubling you at the moment, congratulations.
That genuinely makes me feel much better!
Increasingly I wonder about dbl white lines. I regularly take a lightly trafficked A road route through Sussex. Every time its re-surfaced the double white lines change. Now there at least 4 or 5 broken line sections where I wouldn't even consider an overtake on my bike (with lots of mid-range torque and a high riding position) of anything going faster than a bicycle, and yet three clear, open sections with good visibility, and no junctions that have suddenly been double lined for no apparent reason.
Although its easy to underestimate the ability of some of my fellow road users to have stupid RTCs for no reason I find myself wonder who makes these decisions.
SS7
Although its easy to underestimate the ability of some of my fellow road users to have stupid RTCs for no reason I find myself wonder who makes these decisions.
SS7
MagicalTrevor said:
however I can't seem to find anything in the Highway Code about what to do when you find yourself on the opposite side of the road when double whites start.
165You MUST NOT overtake
if you would have to cross or straddle double white lines with a solid line nearest to you
167
DO NOT overtake where you might come into conflict with other road users. For example
approaching or at a road junction on either side of the road
neither of these rules help with what to do if you find yourself straddling the lines unintentionally, but both seem to apply in the situation reported, although it would be a matter of opinion as to what constitutes 'approaching' a junction. Ultimately, if you drive anywhere, you will be, technically, approaching a junction, but at what distance would it be regarded as being an issue, for the purposes of a dangerous driving charge, for example, if it were to be witnessed by a Police Officer?
I know, hence my third paragraph. In a similar situation, I would have thought that the best option would be to complete the overtake. Yes, it was wrong, but it doesn't sound like you are the kind of person who hoons around like a nutter, and you seem to have already taken on board the salient points of your actions. You've come here looking for advice, but the only thing I can do is say that I hope that if I found myself in such a position I would have a similar attitude.
If, as another poster has suggested, the road markings were to changed to allow for a double-occupancy lane on the opposite side of the carriageway, then the double white line's function is to protect vehicles in the right hand of the two oncoming lanes from risky overtakes by vehicles travelling as you were. As it is the approach to a motorway junction, the suggestion is that peak time traffic levels are the governing factor. You made a mistake, in the dark, when the road was very quiet. I very much doubt that you would have made a 'risky' overtake on the same stretch if the traffic were heavier, so don't worry about it. Lesson learned, no harm done.
If, as another poster has suggested, the road markings were to changed to allow for a double-occupancy lane on the opposite side of the carriageway, then the double white line's function is to protect vehicles in the right hand of the two oncoming lanes from risky overtakes by vehicles travelling as you were. As it is the approach to a motorway junction, the suggestion is that peak time traffic levels are the governing factor. You made a mistake, in the dark, when the road was very quiet. I very much doubt that you would have made a 'risky' overtake on the same stretch if the traffic were heavier, so don't worry about it. Lesson learned, no harm done.
Taken to the absurd, you should stay on the right until the lines become broken again. Obviously not breaking a rule is far more important than taking the safer option.
It is a sad state of affairs when a driver, that is clearly trying to be as good as they can be, even considers placing more importance on a rule than what is safe.
What is more important is if in hindsight you can identify anything you missed which may indicate the overtake may not have been safe.
Providing your driving is safe rules are only an important part of your decision process when they are likely to be enforced. I may be getting rather cynical in my old age though.
It is a sad state of affairs when a driver, that is clearly trying to be as good as they can be, even considers placing more importance on a rule than what is safe.
What is more important is if in hindsight you can identify anything you missed which may indicate the overtake may not have been safe.
Providing your driving is safe rules are only an important part of your decision process when they are likely to be enforced. I may be getting rather cynical in my old age though.
Toltec said:
Taken to the absurd, you should stay one the right until the lines become broken again.
- I was just going to post that!OP - WTF do you think you're supposed to do? If you somehow found youself going the wrong way down a motorway would you carry on to the next exit, and then ask if you might be in trouble for not keeping left!
Thanks guys.
You're right with your points. In the cold light of day I'd have seen the DWL up ahead and wouldn't have overtaken. Disregarding the DWL it's a safe section of road to overtake with good visibility.
One of those things to learn from and I suppose it makes me a better driver overall
You're right with your points. In the cold light of day I'd have seen the DWL up ahead and wouldn't have overtaken. Disregarding the DWL it's a safe section of road to overtake with good visibility.
One of those things to learn from and I suppose it makes me a better driver overall
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