Electric Cars - 'Pose Environmental Threat'
Discussion
Still want one.
The idea that any form of powered personnel transport can be good for the environment is basically b
ks
But it is the same as everything green
When a traditional X exists the green movement want it shut down and replaced with the new green version of X which is far more expensive then a normal X. But as soon as you can get the new green X can be purchased then the greens are dead against the new green version of X.
X = power stations, cars, clothes, carrier bags, pens, washing machines, houses etc and so on.
We are motorists could as a group scrap all our cars and cycle everywhere and the greens would be dead against it
The idea that any form of powered personnel transport can be good for the environment is basically b
ksBut it is the same as everything green
When a traditional X exists the green movement want it shut down and replaced with the new green version of X which is far more expensive then a normal X. But as soon as you can get the new green X can be purchased then the greens are dead against the new green version of X.
X = power stations, cars, clothes, carrier bags, pens, washing machines, houses etc and so on.
We are motorists could as a group scrap all our cars and cycle everywhere and the greens would be dead against it
But it does say this ..
In Europe, where electricity is produced in a number of different ways, electric cars do offer environmental benefits when compared with cars with internal combustion engines, according to the study.
"Electric vehicles powered by the present European electricity mix offer a 10% to 24% decrease in their global warming potential relative to conventional diesel or petrol vehicles."
In Europe, where electricity is produced in a number of different ways, electric cars do offer environmental benefits when compared with cars with internal combustion engines, according to the study.
"Electric vehicles powered by the present European electricity mix offer a 10% to 24% decrease in their global warming potential relative to conventional diesel or petrol vehicles."
Would like to see the full report. Electricity coming from Coal producing more emmissions is obvious, the whole point of the electric car movement relies on clean energy, but did they consider things like oil recovery and refinery impact for conventional vehicles?
In terms of production impact, I would be very interested to know how they've compared it against conventional vehicles as there is a vast amount of recyclability that can be done with battery packs and components which isn't happening at the moment for the lack of end of life vehicles in circulation.
Also, brace yourself for 'Acidification', the Beeb are clearly gearing up for the replacement for climate change.
In terms of production impact, I would be very interested to know how they've compared it against conventional vehicles as there is a vast amount of recyclability that can be done with battery packs and components which isn't happening at the moment for the lack of end of life vehicles in circulation.
Also, brace yourself for 'Acidification', the Beeb are clearly gearing up for the replacement for climate change.
"Electric cars might pollute much more than petrol or diesel-powered cars, according to new research."
New research? I thought it was fairly common knowledge?
The government actually trying to sell these as if they are some sort of savior/way forward is one of the many reason politics makes me want to do this...
New research? I thought it was fairly common knowledge?
The government actually trying to sell these as if they are some sort of savior/way forward is one of the many reason politics makes me want to do this...
PSBuckshot said:
Common sense isn't it.
Where did they think the electric comes from when they plug it in?
It isn't a hamster on a big wheel running like mad.
But crucially you could actually power an electric car from lots of hamsters running on a big wheel. You can't do that with a fossil fuelled car.Where did they think the electric comes from when they plug it in?
It isn't a hamster on a big wheel running like mad.
Advantages of electric cars
1 They can be powered by anything that produces electricity so can be part of the solution to reduce our fossil fuel consumption
2 Much quieter then fossil fuels
3 Zero tail pipe emissions in an urban environment (CO2 isn't an emission its plantfood for those that went to school during the labour years)
4 No need to visit your local petrol station
5 With some smart metering it could be used to store offpeak electricty for energy demand as 90% of the time a car is sat still. If you could have thousands of electric cars back feeding into the grid it could take off the peaks from grid
Love the suggestion of 200,000km lifetime of the EV. So lets say that we need a 100,000km lifetime to be at all viable as a solution:
EV can do 100 miles per day (we're told that the max we need and thats all the technology can really allow on a real world car) so thats 1000 days doing the max miles. Lets say you only use it for commuting so 47 weeks a year 5 days a week = 23,500km a year. So I think that means the electric car has to survive a minimum of 5 years without any replacement motor/batteries to be into the net lead against a diesel car. Rumours I've heard is if you do the max miles in the current EV crop you'll kill the batteries in 2 years...
It also makes the concept of something like the Tesla - a weekend toy EV on very dubious environmental grounds.
EV can do 100 miles per day (we're told that the max we need and thats all the technology can really allow on a real world car) so thats 1000 days doing the max miles. Lets say you only use it for commuting so 47 weeks a year 5 days a week = 23,500km a year. So I think that means the electric car has to survive a minimum of 5 years without any replacement motor/batteries to be into the net lead against a diesel car. Rumours I've heard is if you do the max miles in the current EV crop you'll kill the batteries in 2 years...
It also makes the concept of something like the Tesla - a weekend toy EV on very dubious environmental grounds.
Randy Winkman said:
But it does say this ..
In Europe, where electricity is produced in a number of different ways, electric cars do offer environmental benefits when compared with cars with internal combustion engines, according to the study.
"Electric vehicles powered by the present European electricity mix offer a 10% to 24% decrease in their global warming potential relative to conventional diesel or petrol vehicles."
True.In Europe, where electricity is produced in a number of different ways, electric cars do offer environmental benefits when compared with cars with internal combustion engines, according to the study.
"Electric vehicles powered by the present European electricity mix offer a 10% to 24% decrease in their global warming potential relative to conventional diesel or petrol vehicles."
But electric cars are sold, taxed and treated by officialdom and green groups as 'zero emission'.
thinfourth2 said:
PSBuckshot said:
Common sense isn't it.
Where did they think the electric comes from when they plug it in?
It isn't a hamster on a big wheel running like mad.
But crucially you could actually power an electric car from lots of hamsters running on a big wheel. You can't do that with a fossil fuelled car.Where did they think the electric comes from when they plug it in?
It isn't a hamster on a big wheel running like mad.
Also, using hamsters as a source of power is rather looked down on by animal welfare.
Other problems included hamsters refusing to run, food and water running costs for hamsters, which were more than conventional electric assisted cycles, and also reduced control of the bicycle.
thinfourth2 said:
various things including:
Advantages of electric cars
2 Much quieter then fossil fuels
3 Zero tail pipe emissions in an urban environment (CO2 isn't an emission its plantfood for those that went to school during the labour years)
This is the key part for me. I've always thought electric cars were a bit of a sideshow & we should concentrate effort on vehicles that spend all their time in noisy, heavily polluted urban environments, so buses, taxis & delivery vans. If you could EV all of these, inner city particulate levels would fall dramatically.Advantages of electric cars
2 Much quieter then fossil fuels
3 Zero tail pipe emissions in an urban environment (CO2 isn't an emission its plantfood for those that went to school during the labour years)
In saying that, I've driven an iMiev - as a short-haul urban hack it's actually pretty good to drive. Near enough silent and quicker than most petrol cars in normal 30mph in-town driving.
CBR JGWRR said:
Funnily enough, it isn't viable for anything heavier than a bicycle if you want to use onboard hamsters (amazingly, there has been research into it, and even prototypes...) because a hamster only produces a little power, requiring many hamsters, even for the application of a bicycle. Of course, the more hamsters you use, the more hamsters you need, and eventually you run into ground clearance issues when conering because of the width of wheel needed to contain the hamsters.
Also, using hamsters as a source of power is rather looked down on by animal welfare.
Other problems included hamsters refusing to run, food and water running costs for hamsters, which were more than conventional electric assisted cycles, and also reduced control of the bicycle.
Isn't the logical progression of this the rickshaw?Also, using hamsters as a source of power is rather looked down on by animal welfare.
Other problems included hamsters refusing to run, food and water running costs for hamsters, which were more than conventional electric assisted cycles, and also reduced control of the bicycle.
It might solve unemployment but it might lead to a 2 tier society - Those that pull and those that are pulled. On the plus side shoe sales would go up.
alangla said:
thinfourth2 said:
various things including:
Advantages of electric cars
2 Much quieter then fossil fuels
3 Zero tail pipe emissions in an urban environment (CO2 isn't an emission its plantfood for those that went to school during the labour years)
This is the key part for me. I've always thought electric cars were a bit of a sideshow & we should concentrate effort on vehicles that spend all their time in noisy, heavily polluted urban environments, so buses, taxis & delivery vans. If you could EV all of these, inner city particulate levels would fall dramatically.Advantages of electric cars
2 Much quieter then fossil fuels
3 Zero tail pipe emissions in an urban environment (CO2 isn't an emission its plantfood for those that went to school during the labour years)
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