Gatso Reg number obscured
Discussion
Hi,
I hope that someone can offer advice on this one.
I have received a NIP and requested the photographs. Got back a GATSO photo split into 4 smaller pics. I've checked these carefully but at the angle at which the picture was taken the last digit of the number plate is obscured by a tow ball.
Since there is therefore serious doubt as to the identity of the vehicle and supposition based on "it could possibly be this one (my number)" based on a DVLA database search is not admissible as evidence of identity in speeding cases can they proceed when I point this out?
Best wishes
Sid
PS even if it is my vehicle I cannot identify who the driver is either from the photographs or by reference to credit card, revisiting the site of the alleged offence etc.
I hope that someone can offer advice on this one.
I have received a NIP and requested the photographs. Got back a GATSO photo split into 4 smaller pics. I've checked these carefully but at the angle at which the picture was taken the last digit of the number plate is obscured by a tow ball.
Since there is therefore serious doubt as to the identity of the vehicle and supposition based on "it could possibly be this one (my number)" based on a DVLA database search is not admissible as evidence of identity in speeding cases can they proceed when I point this out?
Best wishes
Sid
PS even if it is my vehicle I cannot identify who the driver is either from the photographs or by reference to credit card, revisiting the site of the alleged offence etc.
I'm sure that the relevant legislation states something like the registration number must be completely readable from the first generation photograph without and other processing being necessary. As far as I remember the full reg. number must be visible and they are not allowed to guess the numbers or digits not clearly visible.
Maybe you should look at the 'Pepipoo' site, then tell the CPS you intend to plead not guilty and remind them that you require all the prosecution's evidence at least 7 full days before the hearing. Tell them also that you believe the evidence does not establish the vehicle's identity as required by law.
Maybe you should not get involved in saying that you don't know who was driving,a s that is not your real defence. Rear window stickers, etc, are not confirmation that it is your vehicle - only the full number plate confirms that.
Maybe you should look at the 'Pepipoo' site, then tell the CPS you intend to plead not guilty and remind them that you require all the prosecution's evidence at least 7 full days before the hearing. Tell them also that you believe the evidence does not establish the vehicle's identity as required by law.
Maybe you should not get involved in saying that you don't know who was driving,a s that is not your real defence. Rear window stickers, etc, are not confirmation that it is your vehicle - only the full number plate confirms that.
Hi Xsaravtr,
You misunderstand I'm innocent the scammers have to prove that I'm guilty, I don't have to prove that I'm innocent it just happens when you are born. I think that they are fishing because they can't possibly see the last digit of the number plate on the photograph.
My question is given that only certain evidence is admissible and there is serious doubt as to the identity of the vehicle how can they possibly proceed?
Best wishes
Sid
You misunderstand I'm innocent the scammers have to prove that I'm guilty, I don't have to prove that I'm innocent it just happens when you are born. I think that they are fishing because they can't possibly see the last digit of the number plate on the photograph.
My question is given that only certain evidence is admissible and there is serious doubt as to the identity of the vehicle how can they possibly proceed?
Best wishes
Sid
Hissingsid said:
...but at the angle at which the picture was taken the last digit of the number plate is obscured by a tow ball...
Assuming it is actually you - likely unless there are two vehicles of the same make/model and colour with consecutive plates (although I admit this is possible, however the DVLA will know either way)...REMOVE YOUR TOWBAR!!!
Streetcop said:
The scamera never lies.......how can they GUESS his reg number and send a NIP?
What the
This gets better and better!
that might offend someone, you know...
Street
OOps Apologies wasnt intentional!
swear filter didnt filter the flipping swear words out! 
Hi,
[quote]Assuming it is actually you - likely unless there are two vehicles of the same make/model and colour with consecutive plates (although I admit this is possible,[/quote]
I think that it is quite common for the same make a model of car to be in the same range especially for popular models. Large dealers are allocated number ranges so that they can tell new car buyers what their number will be and thereby simplifying insurance somewhat. I also once had a company car, the company had bought 10 (I think) Mk4 Cortinas and Escorts (Its a long time ago) and they all had consecutive numbers.
However that is not the point, it is not for me to prove that I am not guilty it is for the prosecution to prove that I am. The number plate is obscured by the tow ball because of the angle of the photograph.
My car has a removable key opperated swan neck which is easily removed and replaced. So whether it has one or not is not really definative.
Best wishes
Sid
[quote]Assuming it is actually you - likely unless there are two vehicles of the same make/model and colour with consecutive plates (although I admit this is possible,[/quote]
I think that it is quite common for the same make a model of car to be in the same range especially for popular models. Large dealers are allocated number ranges so that they can tell new car buyers what their number will be and thereby simplifying insurance somewhat. I also once had a company car, the company had bought 10 (I think) Mk4 Cortinas and Escorts (Its a long time ago) and they all had consecutive numbers.
However that is not the point, it is not for me to prove that I am not guilty it is for the prosecution to prove that I am. The number plate is obscured by the tow ball because of the angle of the photograph.
My car has a removable key opperated swan neck which is easily removed and replaced. So whether it has one or not is not really definative.
Best wishes
Sid
Ask to see the evidence and original photograph but make no comments for now except that you intend to plead not guilty. If the original photograph doesn't identify your car then no offence has taken place because there is no evidence. You can point that out to them when you get the original picture. They aren't allowed to use edited photographs at court.
UpTheIron said:
Assuming it is actually you - likely unless there are two vehicles of the same make/model and colour with consecutive plates (although I admit this is possible, however the DVLA will know either way)
More than possible - I have seen two visibly identical cars to mine in Cambridge, with only one digit difference on the plates on each of them. Obviously all from the same dealer.
Hi,
The ACPO code of practice is a bit ambiguous on this subject. It clearly states:
"PNC will not be used to establish identity by a search of a range of numbers/letters and clarifying by make/colour."
But then immediately goes on to state:
"Visual identification of the offender’s vehicle should be verified by confirming make and colour against the records maintained by DVLA or PNC."
So who knows how that will be interpreted.
Best wishes
Sid
>> Edited by Hissingsid on Friday 27th August 07:43
The ACPO code of practice is a bit ambiguous on this subject. It clearly states:
"PNC will not be used to establish identity by a search of a range of numbers/letters and clarifying by make/colour."
But then immediately goes on to state:
"Visual identification of the offender’s vehicle should be verified by confirming make and colour against the records maintained by DVLA or PNC."
So who knows how that will be interpreted.
Best wishes
Sid
>> Edited by Hissingsid on Friday 27th August 07:43
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