Is the government pricing 'nice' cars off the road?
Discussion
I've been looking at various cars with a fair idea of what I want but the current road fund licence banding is driving me crazy! An example, a Seat Leon Cupra, not even the 'R' version, just the standard 180HP version and the road tax is £148.50 for 6 months and a frankly scandalous £270 for the year! It's not even what I would call a powerful 'gas guzzling' car with a moderately powerful engine. I pay less than that for my 306gti6 although I know that's more down to the age of the car rather than its CO2 output.
So, does the government actually want us all driving around in 1.2 litre s
t boxes that mean scary overtakes with TED measured in minutes rather than seconds and spending less at the pumps? Or are they rolling in it knowing that if people want something that can pull the skin off a rice pudding we will grudgingly pay the associated costs? A case of battering the poor motorist while at least appearing to pander to the green issues and seemingly encouraging less polluting cars?
So, does the government actually want us all driving around in 1.2 litre s
t boxes that mean scary overtakes with TED measured in minutes rather than seconds and spending less at the pumps? Or are they rolling in it knowing that if people want something that can pull the skin off a rice pudding we will grudgingly pay the associated costs? A case of battering the poor motorist while at least appearing to pander to the green issues and seemingly encouraging less polluting cars?No. The gubberment wants you on a bicycle, wearing a green unform and carrying a little red book, like a good citizen.
It's all about CONTROL.
Oh and it's also about pandering to the lazy feckless poor, blaming society's ills on those who have done well for themselves.
"Look at the rich man in his nice car, with his nice house, and his pretty wife, and his handsome children in good schools. He has all the thgins you will never have. Look how we PUNISH him with taxes. Look how we take his money away from him and use it to provide your state funded fags.
Now, give us your vote."
It's all about CONTROL.
Oh and it's also about pandering to the lazy feckless poor, blaming society's ills on those who have done well for themselves.
"Look at the rich man in his nice car, with his nice house, and his pretty wife, and his handsome children in good schools. He has all the thgins you will never have. Look how we PUNISH him with taxes. Look how we take his money away from him and use it to provide your state funded fags.
Now, give us your vote."
Edited by Soovy on Monday 8th October 11:17
MissChief said:
I've been looking at various cars with a fair idea of what I want but the current road fund licence banding is driving me crazy! An example, a Seat Leon Cupra, not even the 'R' version, just the standard 180HP version and the road tax is £148.50 for 6 months and a frankly scandalous £270 for the year! It's not even what I would call a powerful 'gas guzzling' car with a moderately powerful engine. I pay less than that for my 306gti6 although I know that's more down to the age of the car rather than its CO2 output.
So, does the government actually want us all driving around in 1.2 litre st boxes that mean scary overtakes with TED measured in minutes rather than seconds and spending less at the pumps? Or are they rolling in it knowing that if people want something that can pull the skin off a rice pudding we will grudgingly pay the associated costs? A case of battering the poor motorist while at least appearing to pander to the green issues and seemingly encouraging less polluting cars?
A 180 bhp car is a luxury, not a neccesity, so id like to see your justification for lowering the RFL?So, does the government actually want us all driving around in 1.2 litre s
t boxes that mean scary overtakes with TED measured in minutes rather than seconds and spending less at the pumps? Or are they rolling in it knowing that if people want something that can pull the skin off a rice pudding we will grudgingly pay the associated costs? A case of battering the poor motorist while at least appearing to pander to the green issues and seemingly encouraging less polluting cars?If you already back £2000 for fuel per year (or maybe more) £270 for RFL isnt going to cripple you, i hope.
Go back 5 or 6 years or whenever it was and all cars over 1549cc cost approx £240 a year to tax, I think it's only since all these new low CO2 cars with tiny VED rates have come in that we have started to think that £200 plus for a years tax is a lot of money. I agree the top band of £470 is pushing it especially on a cheaper and older car but would spending an extra £100 a year on tax really stop you buying the car you want. Its less than £10 a month which I'm sure most people waste away on crap anyway.
Not all nice cars have 70 litre V8s you know...
It's pricing certain cars off the road yes. But it won't effect the very rich in the slightest. I'm hoping it'll make manufactures use their imaginations again, rather than droning out the same box like cars. The GT86 is a good example, so are elises, catherams, the Atom etc. Think outside the box and there's plenty of enthusiasts cars still being made.
It's pricing certain cars off the road yes. But it won't effect the very rich in the slightest. I'm hoping it'll make manufactures use their imaginations again, rather than droning out the same box like cars. The GT86 is a good example, so are elises, catherams, the Atom etc. Think outside the box and there's plenty of enthusiasts cars still being made.
Benbay001 said:
MissChief said:
I've been looking at various cars with a fair idea of what I want but the current road fund licence banding is driving me crazy! An example, a Seat Leon Cupra, not even the 'R' version, just the standard 180HP version and the road tax is £148.50 for 6 months and a frankly scandalous £270 for the year! It's not even what I would call a powerful 'gas guzzling' car with a moderately powerful engine. I pay less than that for my 306gti6 although I know that's more down to the age of the car rather than its CO2 output.
So, does the government actually want us all driving around in 1.2 litre st boxes that mean scary overtakes with TED measured in minutes rather than seconds and spending less at the pumps? Or are they rolling in it knowing that if people want something that can pull the skin off a rice pudding we will grudgingly pay the associated costs? A case of battering the poor motorist while at least appearing to pander to the green issues and seemingly encouraging less polluting cars?
A 180 bhp car is a luxury, not a neccesity, so id like to see your justification for lowering the RFL?So, does the government actually want us all driving around in 1.2 litre s
t boxes that mean scary overtakes with TED measured in minutes rather than seconds and spending less at the pumps? Or are they rolling in it knowing that if people want something that can pull the skin off a rice pudding we will grudgingly pay the associated costs? A case of battering the poor motorist while at least appearing to pander to the green issues and seemingly encouraging less polluting cars?If you already back £2000 for fuel per year (or maybe more) £270 for RFL isnt going to cripple you, i hope.
Food and water are necessities. Saving [using myself as an example] 3 hours of your life a day being able to drive to work rather than walk-bus-train-walk seems fairly justifyable. Taxing the hell out of motorists to pay for real non-essentials like alcohol and cigarettes for those who cba working seems rather corrupt.
danjama said:
We should all run bicycles for a year in protest. The government will soon miss the money and put prices down.
I said it before. If EVERYONE reduced their car use in direct protest then the reduced revenue would make them sit up and take notice. Oh, we'd have to have it organised and publicised too. Can't be a "terrorist" simply for NOT driving a nasty planet killing car as much.Jasandjules said:
I said it before. If EVERYONE reduced their car use in direct protest then the reduced revenue would make them sit up and take notice. Oh, we'd have to have it organised and publicised too. Can't be a "terrorist" simply for NOT driving a nasty planet killing car as much.
I disagree what would happen is we would see other tax avenues increased to account for the drop in revenue from car relatated taxes.The government need our money to pay for the silliness of the last 10 years +. Unfortunately I'm a bit late on the my house was worth 150k and now is x2 so ill get the increasing tax and bummed on the house prices too! Great!
Codswallop said:
£270 for a years road tax isn't that bad all things considered. Certainly a lot less than the four figure charges in many other countries.
I'd agree , for me its about the same as the insurance and considerably less than the fuel.I dont think there should be £0 VED cars as they are essentially getting a rebate from the system (What does the VED system cost per vehicle?).
Its an outdated system that will be replaced with something more costly and probably less effective (road pricing).
I'd rather they just upped the price of fuel , but as I dont do that many miles that suits me but would be far worse for the majority.
Some other euro countries are far worse (IRL & NL).
Its about time they abolished the failure to display penalty though, after all the disk is no more than a pretty receipt now that its all available on-line.
One of these will do a couple of K miles per annum, the other anywhere upwards of 40k per annum. One is a 2 litre diesel, one is a 1.6 petrol. RFL for one is £220, the other is £30.
Having driven an F10, 520d efficient dynamics (and just about managed to stay awake) It looks like I'll just have to fork out a bit more to enjoy driving.
Having driven an F10, 520d efficient dynamics (and just about managed to stay awake) It looks like I'll just have to fork out a bit more to enjoy driving.
Jasandjules said:
I said it before. If EVERYONE reduced their car use in direct protest then the reduced revenue would make them sit up and take notice. Oh, we'd have to have it organised and publicised too. Can't be a "terrorist" simply for NOT driving a nasty planet killing car as much.
Giving up my car to protest about the running costs of my car is going to mostly deprive me of my car. I like my car.It'd be like giving up my job to protest about income tax, except RFL is a tiny amount in comparison.
CooperS said:
what would happen is we would see other tax avenues increased to account for the drop in revenue from car relatated taxes.
The government need our money to pay for the silliness of the last 10 years +. Unfortunately I'm a bit late on the my house was worth 150k and now is x2 so ill get the increasing tax and bummed on the house prices too! Great!
You are right. But given the choice, I would rather pay more tax on my ciggies and booze, less at the pump/RFLThe government need our money to pay for the silliness of the last 10 years +. Unfortunately I'm a bit late on the my house was worth 150k and now is x2 so ill get the increasing tax and bummed on the house prices too! Great!
I don't think tax needs to be reduced, it needs to be 'reallocated'
Edited by Jazzy Jefferson on Monday 8th October 12:21
I think that there should be an element of paying more for a bigger car but it has got ridiculous and now a 1.8 Mondeo is considered an evil, climate destroying, fuel guzzling beast.
I don't think the government are actually greedy and just take more and more money in tax because they want to, the amount of tax taken is a reflection on society as whole and the cost to maintain the system and services we all use to a greater or lesser extent, the problem is the system has gone from a safety net to a lifestyle choice, money is provided with no expectation of anything in return or that ever changing, cradle to grave in the care of the state, i.e. the everyone who does work and contribute.
At the other end big companies and wealthy individuals can avoid paying their dues and we allow more people in than we can actually look after, I am not racist and have nothing against immigration, I see it as a positive thing but there needs to be realistic quota's that pertain to the size of the country and what its systems can support.
A few car enthusiasts bleating about not being able to afford a V8 isn't high on society's agenda but really, the government have picked on the motorist enough, they have already raised fuel tax to a point where people are making alternate choices in terms of more economical cars, perhaps that is actually their game plan as per their posturing and eco babble but the hole in the revenue needs looking at. All the price rises mean people use their cars less, they dont go out as much so there is a stifling knock on to the economy, we have a combination of the oil companies and the goverment all using us as a cash cow.
I don't think the government are actually greedy and just take more and more money in tax because they want to, the amount of tax taken is a reflection on society as whole and the cost to maintain the system and services we all use to a greater or lesser extent, the problem is the system has gone from a safety net to a lifestyle choice, money is provided with no expectation of anything in return or that ever changing, cradle to grave in the care of the state, i.e. the everyone who does work and contribute.
At the other end big companies and wealthy individuals can avoid paying their dues and we allow more people in than we can actually look after, I am not racist and have nothing against immigration, I see it as a positive thing but there needs to be realistic quota's that pertain to the size of the country and what its systems can support.
A few car enthusiasts bleating about not being able to afford a V8 isn't high on society's agenda but really, the government have picked on the motorist enough, they have already raised fuel tax to a point where people are making alternate choices in terms of more economical cars, perhaps that is actually their game plan as per their posturing and eco babble but the hole in the revenue needs looking at. All the price rises mean people use their cars less, they dont go out as much so there is a stifling knock on to the economy, we have a combination of the oil companies and the goverment all using us as a cash cow.
Captain Muppet said:
Giving up my car to protest about the running costs of my car is going to mostly deprive me of my car. I like my car.
It'd be like giving up my job to protest about income tax, except RFL is a tiny amount in comparison.
I didn't say give it up. I said REDUCE USE. That will impact upon the tax take so they could hopefully be more realistic about the stupid taxation on Fuel. i.e. hold them to ransom.It'd be like giving up my job to protest about income tax, except RFL is a tiny amount in comparison.
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