Effectively below min wage
Discussion
MrsRotaryMazda works at a nursery. The pay is around min wage +5%.
Now that MrsRM has been there a year or so, she is required to do child assessments involving a fair bit of paperwork. To maintain the required staff ratios, the manager says MrsRM will have to do this on her own time and will be paid 50p/hour for this. If MrsRM stays on work premises to do it, it won't be paid at all.
With the amount of time this takes, I work out that overall, she is getting less than min wage. I assume this is not legal.
Training courses are required for the job. The courses are paid for but MrsRM is not paid for the time there and any travel expenses will not be reimbursed (30 mile round trip by car). Is this also legal?
Which law/regulation should be pointed out to the employer?
My wife does the same job, and is in pretty much the same situation.
Her previous job was as a care worker, which far worse. She would be paid by the job, so typically drive to the next town, do half hour's work, drive back. All in well over an hour, possibly 2, but get paid for half hour of actual work only. Also petrol allowance was much less than costs, and you had to pay for your own parking......she lasted about a month
Its fairly common for "minumum wage" jobs to be less than minimum wage. If you kick up a fuss I doubt she will be employed for much longer.
Her previous job was as a care worker, which far worse. She would be paid by the job, so typically drive to the next town, do half hour's work, drive back. All in well over an hour, possibly 2, but get paid for half hour of actual work only. Also petrol allowance was much less than costs, and you had to pay for your own parking......she lasted about a month
Its fairly common for "minumum wage" jobs to be less than minimum wage. If you kick up a fuss I doubt she will be employed for much longer.
There is a Government funded helpline available to advise employees on the NMW. http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Dl1/Directories/DG_177...
I suggest you or Mrs R give them a call if she is worried about the consequences of raising the issue directly with her employer.
If she does attempt to enforce her rights under the NMW law her employer will be acting unlawfully if they treat her detrimentally because of this. If she is dismissed because of her complaint the dismissal would be automatically unfair. It doesn't matter how long she has worked there.
I suggest you or Mrs R give them a call if she is worried about the consequences of raising the issue directly with her employer.
If she does attempt to enforce her rights under the NMW law her employer will be acting unlawfully if they treat her detrimentally because of this. If she is dismissed because of her complaint the dismissal would be automatically unfair. It doesn't matter how long she has worked there.
Breadvan72 said:
The relevant instrument is the National Minimum Wage Regulations 1999, as amended. The employee can enforce her rights in an Employment Tribunal, or complain to HMRC, the enforcement body in this field.
said:
There is a Government funded helpline available to advise employees on the NMW. http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Dl1/Directories/DG_177...
Thank you for that. I will look into that regulation. In the meantime, Mrs RM is not going to be doing any more unpaid training at weekends. I've suggested that all worked hours go on the timesheet and if they choose not to pay it, at least we will have some evidence.rotarymazda said:
MrsRotaryMazda works at a nursery. The pay is around min wage +5%.
Now that MrsRM has been there a year or so, she is required to do child assessments involving a fair bit of paperwork. To maintain the required staff ratios, the manager says MrsRM will have to do this on her own time and will be paid 50p/hour for this. If MrsRM stays on work premises to do it, it won't be paid at all.
With the amount of time this takes, I work out that overall, she is getting less than min wage. I assume this is not legal.
Training courses are required for the job. The courses are paid for but MrsRM is not paid for the time there and any travel expenses will not be reimbursed (30 mile round trip by car). Is this also legal?
Which law/regulation should be pointed out to the employer?
Scandalous. Now that MrsRM has been there a year or so, she is required to do child assessments involving a fair bit of paperwork. To maintain the required staff ratios, the manager says MrsRM will have to do this on her own time and will be paid 50p/hour for this. If MrsRM stays on work premises to do it, it won't be paid at all.
With the amount of time this takes, I work out that overall, she is getting less than min wage. I assume this is not legal.
Training courses are required for the job. The courses are paid for but MrsRM is not paid for the time there and any travel expenses will not be reimbursed (30 mile round trip by car). Is this also legal?
Which law/regulation should be pointed out to the employer?
My daugther goes to a nursery for a couple of days per week and the very low pay of the staff is something I have thought about.
To be honest, I think that parents should be prepared to pay more for somebody else to look after their children for them.
MC Bodge said:
rotarymazda said:
MrsRotaryMazda works at a nursery. The pay is around min wage +5%.
Now that MrsRM has been there a year or so, she is required to do child assessments involving a fair bit of paperwork. To maintain the required staff ratios, the manager says MrsRM will have to do this on her own time and will be paid 50p/hour for this. If MrsRM stays on work premises to do it, it won't be paid at all.
With the amount of time this takes, I work out that overall, she is getting less than min wage. I assume this is not legal.
Training courses are required for the job. The courses are paid for but MrsRM is not paid for the time there and any travel expenses will not be reimbursed (30 mile round trip by car). Is this also legal?
Which law/regulation should be pointed out to the employer?
Scandalous. Now that MrsRM has been there a year or so, she is required to do child assessments involving a fair bit of paperwork. To maintain the required staff ratios, the manager says MrsRM will have to do this on her own time and will be paid 50p/hour for this. If MrsRM stays on work premises to do it, it won't be paid at all.
With the amount of time this takes, I work out that overall, she is getting less than min wage. I assume this is not legal.
Training courses are required for the job. The courses are paid for but MrsRM is not paid for the time there and any travel expenses will not be reimbursed (30 mile round trip by car). Is this also legal?
Which law/regulation should be pointed out to the employer?
My daugther goes to a nursery for a couple of days per week and the very low pay of the staff is something I have thought about.
To be honest, I think that parents should be prepared to pay more for somebody else to look after their children for them.
This is to look after pre-school kids ffs.
My OH has worked in a few nurseries and through her, and her colleagues' experiences, I would suggest most nurseries are borderline negligent with little regard and/or knowledge of employment rights and practices. Their business model appears to be to churn at- or below-NMW staff whose experience of asserting their rights is non-existent, whilst charging fees resembling the provision of top-flight staff.
Rant over.
Rant over.
98elise said:
My wife does the same job, and is in pretty much the same situation.
Her previous job was as a care worker, which far worse. She would be paid by the job, so typically drive to the next town, do half hour's work, drive back. All in well over an hour, possibly 2, but get paid for half hour of actual work only. Also petrol allowance was much less than costs, and you had to pay for your own parking......she lasted about a month
Its fairly common for "minumum wage" jobs to be less than minimum wage. If you kick up a fuss I doubt she will be employed for much longer.
If you don't need the money immediately can you not make a fuss but keep a record of the hours worked and unpaid travelling time that is actually working hours and take them to a tribunal when you leave?Her previous job was as a care worker, which far worse. She would be paid by the job, so typically drive to the next town, do half hour's work, drive back. All in well over an hour, possibly 2, but get paid for half hour of actual work only. Also petrol allowance was much less than costs, and you had to pay for your own parking......she lasted about a month
Its fairly common for "minumum wage" jobs to be less than minimum wage. If you kick up a fuss I doubt she will be employed for much longer.
purplepolarbear said:
98elise said:
My wife does the same job, and is in pretty much the same situation.
Her previous job was as a care worker, which far worse. She would be paid by the job, so typically drive to the next town, do half hour's work, drive back. All in well over an hour, possibly 2, but get paid for half hour of actual work only. Also petrol allowance was much less than costs, and you had to pay for your own parking......she lasted about a month
Its fairly common for "minumum wage" jobs to be less than minimum wage. If you kick up a fuss I doubt she will be employed for much longer.
If you don't need the money immediately can you not make a fuss but keep a record of the hours worked and unpaid travelling time that is actually working hours and take them to a tribunal when you leave?Her previous job was as a care worker, which far worse. She would be paid by the job, so typically drive to the next town, do half hour's work, drive back. All in well over an hour, possibly 2, but get paid for half hour of actual work only. Also petrol allowance was much less than costs, and you had to pay for your own parking......she lasted about a month
Its fairly common for "minumum wage" jobs to be less than minimum wage. If you kick up a fuss I doubt she will be employed for much longer.
It¡¦s the nice end of ¡§slave wages¡¨ and her choice to work there. We don¡¦t need the money as my wages more than cover the bills, but my wife wants to have her own cash to treat the kids etc (and it funds her MX5 ƒº).
There are many jobs though where its plain exploitation though. The carer job she did needs to be blown apart, its total exploitation, paying way less than minimum wage. Its run like a gang master operation. Nasty people farming the work out to exploited individuals. Massive turnover of staff, and very poor standards.
My wife is in an identical situation. Arguably worse because she has had to pay for her own training too and it wasn't cheap.
With regards to that, I don't think it is completely unreasonable. If teh job requires this training then arguably my wife/your wife should have had it before they even started so I think that is almost fair enough.
But you are right about the rest if it. My wife does a lot in her own time re assesments and similar. Pretty sure she doesnt get paid for the parents evenings either.
Curious to know what you end up doing about it.
With regards to that, I don't think it is completely unreasonable. If teh job requires this training then arguably my wife/your wife should have had it before they even started so I think that is almost fair enough.
But you are right about the rest if it. My wife does a lot in her own time re assesments and similar. Pretty sure she doesnt get paid for the parents evenings either.
Curious to know what you end up doing about it.
I used to work for a company where I and the owners son were the only salaried members of staff. All the other staff were hourly paid, on minimum wage. Each year their hourly rate went up in line with the increase in NMW. My salary didn't..........
After 5 years I got a bit pissed off by this and asked for a pay rise. The answer was "you get working tax credit and family tax credit which tops up your salary so no increase".
Some scribbled calculations by me on the back of an envelope revealed to me that I - the manager - was by them earning less per hour than the part time hourly paid junior staff.
I walked. Within 3 months in my new job I was earning 57% more - and I'm not in a particularly well paid profession (administrator)
After 5 years I got a bit pissed off by this and asked for a pay rise. The answer was "you get working tax credit and family tax credit which tops up your salary so no increase".
Some scribbled calculations by me on the back of an envelope revealed to me that I - the manager - was by them earning less per hour than the part time hourly paid junior staff.
I walked. Within 3 months in my new job I was earning 57% more - and I'm not in a particularly well paid profession (administrator)
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