Anybody here clued up in the AJP specs arena?
Discussion
I'll find this out sooner or later, but if anyones been down this road, would be quite helpful...
a) Apart from the crank, what else is forged in the AJP 4.5?
b) What metal code type are the rods?
c) What are the rod measurements:
Center ?.?", Rod ?.?", Pin ?.?", Weight ?G
d) What make and model are the lambda sensors?
a) Apart from the crank, what else is forged in the AJP 4.5?
b) What metal code type are the rods?
c) What are the rod measurements:
Center ?.?", Rod ?.?", Pin ?.?", Weight ?G
d) What make and model are the lambda sensors?
If you had asked a month ago I could have measured the conrods for you as i had mine stripped down , you could even have seen for yourself as I think you have passed my house on the a603 many times .I believe the rods are the same as the 4.2 as power do not specify a change in their upgrade . Joolz should be able to tell you as I gave him some spare rods , David
Really???? Moggerhanger?
Damn, you're on my doorstep in that case....
We should hook up sometime...
I see you're a multi-tiv owner, so one wasnt enough huh?
Joo doesnt always share technical data online much, and I dont like to bother him at his workshop, he's got a thing against the phone ringing...
I've sent an email off to tvr, but its not crucial, the engines getting stripped down pretty soon, and all will be measured before being sent away for custom forged component replacements in the US of A...
I cant believe it though, everything is now spreadsheet'ed and the figures tally up, all the parts have been selected.... and got two race-engine firms lined up to take the project on...
When the first bolt comes off, theres no going back.... eeeeeeekkk....
Damn, you're on my doorstep in that case....
We should hook up sometime...
I see you're a multi-tiv owner, so one wasnt enough huh?
Joo doesnt always share technical data online much, and I dont like to bother him at his workshop, he's got a thing against the phone ringing...
I've sent an email off to tvr, but its not crucial, the engines getting stripped down pretty soon, and all will be measured before being sent away for custom forged component replacements in the US of A...
I cant believe it though, everything is now spreadsheet'ed and the figures tally up, all the parts have been selected.... and got two race-engine firms lined up to take the project on...
When the first bolt comes off, theres no going back.... eeeeeeekkk....
[quote=SXS ]
I've sent an email off to tvr, but its not crucial, the engines getting stripped down pretty soon, and all will be measured before being sent away for custom forged component replacements in the US of A...
I cant believe it though, everything is now spreadsheet'ed and the figures tally up, all the parts have been selected.... and got two race-engine firms lined up to take the project on...
When the first bolt comes off, theres no going back.... eeeeeeekkk....[/quote]
are you able to give us an idea of cost?
D
I've sent an email off to tvr, but its not crucial, the engines getting stripped down pretty soon, and all will be measured before being sent away for custom forged component replacements in the US of A...
I cant believe it though, everything is now spreadsheet'ed and the figures tally up, all the parts have been selected.... and got two race-engine firms lined up to take the project on...
When the first bolt comes off, theres no going back.... eeeeeeekkk....[/quote]
are you able to give us an idea of cost?
D
[quote=SXS ]I'll find this out sooner or later, but if anyones been down this road, would be quite helpful...
a) Apart from the crank, what else is forged in the AJP 4.5?
b) What metal code type are the rods?
c) What are the rod measurements:
Center ?.?", Rod ?.?", Pin ?.?", Weight ?G
d) What make and model are the lambda sensors?[/quote]
Of interest, how do you know it's got a forged crank, or is this a known fact? A lot of high performance engines prefer castings. Rods are bound to be forged as most are these days. They could even be billet but I doubt it.
a) Apart from the crank, what else is forged in the AJP 4.5?
b) What metal code type are the rods?
c) What are the rod measurements:
Center ?.?", Rod ?.?", Pin ?.?", Weight ?G
d) What make and model are the lambda sensors?[/quote]
Of interest, how do you know it's got a forged crank, or is this a known fact? A lot of high performance engines prefer castings. Rods are bound to be forged as most are these days. They could even be billet but I doubt it.
Aspirated yes. Turbo-charged no.
Supercharged yes! - no figures just yet, but very very close to 4 figures....
When the gearbox and flywheel go... I'll be upgrading them too... but hopefully should be ok if I watch the revving for now, funds are pretty low, when the cash flows back - then the flywheel/gearbox/diff and driveshafts will be replaced with custom aftermarket jobs....
I'll keep you all posted....
Cost wise, because I'm doing it by the book and using a race engine company with decades of experience, and rebuilding the engine with forged components, its in the 5 figure territory...
but its well worth it, looks like I wont need a Mosler afterall....
The horses will outshine most street/drag cars...
Mating to the ground will be an issue, but the other firm on the project has an idea thats original and workable...
Top-secret at the moment, dont want to blow my horn early... when its done, I'll answer the questions...
Thanks to Danny for forcing me to go down this route, I couldnt live with thinking it could only be 350-360 tops!
Supercharged yes! - no figures just yet, but very very close to 4 figures....
When the gearbox and flywheel go... I'll be upgrading them too... but hopefully should be ok if I watch the revving for now, funds are pretty low, when the cash flows back - then the flywheel/gearbox/diff and driveshafts will be replaced with custom aftermarket jobs....
I'll keep you all posted....
Cost wise, because I'm doing it by the book and using a race engine company with decades of experience, and rebuilding the engine with forged components, its in the 5 figure territory...
but its well worth it, looks like I wont need a Mosler afterall....
The horses will outshine most street/drag cars...
Mating to the ground will be an issue, but the other firm on the project has an idea thats original and workable...
Top-secret at the moment, dont want to blow my horn early... when its done, I'll answer the questions...
Thanks to Danny for forcing me to go down this route, I couldnt live with thinking it could only be 350-360 tops!
Had a thorough inspection by 4 different tuner outfits, when I was looking into the turbo scene...
but a few negative points:
1) Bigger turbos will need space, and there is none! The manifolds are already a tight fit, and routing the manifolds around the bay is not something that anyone in their right mind would suggest....
2) The engine already produces way too much heat, adding big feck off turbos will just cause more hassle than joy...
3) Massive lag, power will come in too quick when they spool up, and thats a bad point in a rear wheel drive feather of a car.
4) Detonation on high boost will be very hard to avoid, as the bigger turbos heat up, so too will the air they're sucking in, intercoolers would make a difference, but only up to a point....
Advantages of the supercharger:
1) The power is progressive with crank speed...
2) A huge feck of supercharger will push in more and more air nice and easily, will have its own cooled oil system, so heat will be way down compared to turbos....
The engineers have also confirmed that they will be able to increase the rev range by 2-3k easily...
As the forged internals will be reducing the mass considerably... conrods, lowcomp pistons, valves etc....
So I could quite easily have a 10k revving engine...
Of course certain other modifications will be required, which I might just go for, as the engine will be ripped open already, might as well do everything possible in the engine while its open...
Theres a lot more in the pipeline, but first things first, engines getting a dose of Jason-X... Hopefully work starts mid September...
And by Mid-October, she'll be on the road with chart topping figures.... Cant wait to tell the insurance company - I wander if BHP counts as a factor in the premium.... hehe...
but a few negative points:
1) Bigger turbos will need space, and there is none! The manifolds are already a tight fit, and routing the manifolds around the bay is not something that anyone in their right mind would suggest....
2) The engine already produces way too much heat, adding big feck off turbos will just cause more hassle than joy...
3) Massive lag, power will come in too quick when they spool up, and thats a bad point in a rear wheel drive feather of a car.
4) Detonation on high boost will be very hard to avoid, as the bigger turbos heat up, so too will the air they're sucking in, intercoolers would make a difference, but only up to a point....
Advantages of the supercharger:
1) The power is progressive with crank speed...
2) A huge feck of supercharger will push in more and more air nice and easily, will have its own cooled oil system, so heat will be way down compared to turbos....
The engineers have also confirmed that they will be able to increase the rev range by 2-3k easily...
As the forged internals will be reducing the mass considerably... conrods, lowcomp pistons, valves etc....
So I could quite easily have a 10k revving engine...
Of course certain other modifications will be required, which I might just go for, as the engine will be ripped open already, might as well do everything possible in the engine while its open...
Theres a lot more in the pipeline, but first things first, engines getting a dose of Jason-X... Hopefully work starts mid September...
And by Mid-October, she'll be on the road with chart topping figures.... Cant wait to tell the insurance company
- I wander if BHP counts as a factor in the premium.... hehe...SXS - you must be crazy! I like it
Seriously though, do you think the Cerbera is the best base car for this kind of project? I talked to some folk about serious mods to my first Cerb back in the late '90's. They were well into TVR's but suggested it wasn't a good base platform. I'm not saying they were right but I'd hate to see a fellow ph'er blow loads of cash in the wrong direction. Do you think the exhaust manifolds can shift all the burnt gasses? I always though they were a bit restrictive or are you going to re route them like a Tuscan racer? Can the block take it? You probably have answers to all these questions but thought I'd mention it anyway.
Are you around at the weekend? Maybe mail me if you're about and we'll meet up?
Washy
Seriously though, do you think the Cerbera is the best base car for this kind of project? I talked to some folk about serious mods to my first Cerb back in the late '90's. They were well into TVR's but suggested it wasn't a good base platform. I'm not saying they were right but I'd hate to see a fellow ph'er blow loads of cash in the wrong direction. Do you think the exhaust manifolds can shift all the burnt gasses? I always though they were a bit restrictive or are you going to re route them like a Tuscan racer? Can the block take it? You probably have answers to all these questions but thought I'd mention it anyway.
Are you around at the weekend? Maybe mail me if you're about and we'll meet up?
Washy
If it helps I can offer some more input here.
The crank is a casting made from SG nodular iron, it's definately not a forging.
The rods are forged as is the norm and very similar to cosworth or Chevy vega. They are of reasonable quality but nothing to shout out about. I've seen much better production items ie Golf VR6. The tiff has bolts in the caps as opposed to a nut and bolt.
The stock pistons are piss poor weak castings made by AE and wouldn't handle any boost worth having. Talk about being made on a budget! You will need custom forgings.
Personally superchargers aren't the way to go but it's a matter of choice. A supercharger like a rootes or eaton are the most inefficient way to make boost. Go for a Vortech or Lyscholm if you must supercharge. A turbo can be progressive and mounted in front of the 'V' and heat needn't be an issue if addressed correctly. Iirc, all the fast race cars use turbochargers and a 10k rev limit is very unlikely for all sorts of reasons. Forged pistons are usually heavier as will be the pins you need to keep it together at those higher rpm's. You will need titanium rods and god only knows what will happen to your valve train. I'd stick with stock rpm's.
The crank is a casting made from SG nodular iron, it's definately not a forging.
The rods are forged as is the norm and very similar to cosworth or Chevy vega. They are of reasonable quality but nothing to shout out about. I've seen much better production items ie Golf VR6. The tiff has bolts in the caps as opposed to a nut and bolt.
The stock pistons are piss poor weak castings made by AE and wouldn't handle any boost worth having. Talk about being made on a budget! You will need custom forgings.
Personally superchargers aren't the way to go but it's a matter of choice. A supercharger like a rootes or eaton are the most inefficient way to make boost. Go for a Vortech or Lyscholm if you must supercharge. A turbo can be progressive and mounted in front of the 'V' and heat needn't be an issue if addressed correctly. Iirc, all the fast race cars use turbochargers and a 10k rev limit is very unlikely for all sorts of reasons. Forged pistons are usually heavier as will be the pins you need to keep it together at those higher rpm's. You will need titanium rods and god only knows what will happen to your valve train. I'd stick with stock rpm's.
Forged pistons can be lighter, depends on what type of metals are used... (guess what material the replacement forged rods and pistons will be made of!?!)
I was pretty sure it was a forged crank in the 4.5, I'm not sure of the 4.2 though.... anyway, when the engines stripped apart, the engineers will know exactly whats what, I just needed the info before the operation starts, so that I know what I need to get suppliers/builders lined up for beforehand, for costing etc...
I'll still be upgrading the rods... better be safe than sorry....
The AJP block is rock solid, I was talking to an engine designer the other day, and as far as he is concerned, the AJP is actually more solid than a few big block american engines, structurally.
The only issues are relative to valves, lining, pistons - and to a certain degree, the choice of engine angle has an aggressive attitude towards all of the internals... everything else flew over my head... (not my words, but I wouldnt argue with a fella who used to build Lister V12 Jaguar engines) his technical jargon reminded me of shpub's posts
Dont worry Boosted, I aint walking into this blind...
I've got all the right guys on it, and I'm also getting a work guarantee etc., etc., as long as I dont go over a set boost, which wont be possible by the average joe bloggs unless I manufacture fluid balanced pulleys at home... yeah right...
Anyway, there are two schools of thought, one says turbo, another says super....
both have their advantages and disadvantages...
for this type of car, and the fact, I want to still drive her on the road without slipping off the clutch and going up a tree, the super is the way to go...
The power comes in progressivly - and in the long run - you get more power, but its nicely in tune with the speed of the engine - which is exactly what the doctor order, especially for a car, which already has traction problems due mainly to its weight distribution (yeah right, all in the front!)....
The only major concern is chassis flex... another one that flew over my head.... but the other firm will look into that and possible strengthening adjustments as well as handling and mating....
The idea was to move into the Mosler scene, but I figured, I love trevor, all I ever wanted was serious shifting power (ie. 100mph in around 5-6 secs)... and if I can do that to her.... then theres no need to save up big dosh 100k+ to pick up a car that makes look like a poser and estrange myself from everyone due to envy... (sad fact of life, I'm sure you know where I'm coming from)...
Cant wait....
Oh and the manifolds point - if you noticed a little while ago, I was looking into getting a new set built....
.... well they are being built as we speak!
By another company, a pretty good price too, the exhaust note will be superb! The cats are also being replaced...
I've already spent in the region of 5k on her this year... looks like that cost will float up just a little wee bit more....
Anyway, I'm talking too much, theres a lot I want to say about whats exactly happening, and the performance figures... but an artist never shows his sketch... I'll be back with the full masterpeice...
Neil, yes we need to hook up sometime, pop me an email, maybe we can grab a game of bowling or something tomorrow or the weekend....
>> Edited by SXS on Thursday 26th August 23:00
I was pretty sure it was a forged crank in the 4.5, I'm not sure of the 4.2 though.... anyway, when the engines stripped apart, the engineers will know exactly whats what, I just needed the info before the operation starts, so that I know what I need to get suppliers/builders lined up for beforehand, for costing etc...
I'll still be upgrading the rods... better be safe than sorry....
The AJP block is rock solid, I was talking to an engine designer the other day, and as far as he is concerned, the AJP is actually more solid than a few big block american engines, structurally.
The only issues are relative to valves, lining, pistons - and to a certain degree, the choice of engine angle has an aggressive attitude towards all of the internals... everything else flew over my head... (not my words, but I wouldnt argue with a fella who used to build Lister V12 Jaguar engines) his technical jargon reminded me of shpub's posts
Dont worry Boosted, I aint walking into this blind...
I've got all the right guys on it, and I'm also getting a work guarantee etc., etc., as long as I dont go over a set boost, which wont be possible by the average joe bloggs unless I manufacture fluid balanced pulleys at home... yeah right...
Anyway, there are two schools of thought, one says turbo, another says super....
both have their advantages and disadvantages...
for this type of car, and the fact, I want to still drive her on the road without slipping off the clutch and going up a tree, the super is the way to go...
The power comes in progressivly - and in the long run - you get more power, but its nicely in tune with the speed of the engine - which is exactly what the doctor order, especially for a car, which already has traction problems due mainly to its weight distribution (yeah right, all in the front!)....
The only major concern is chassis flex... another one that flew over my head.... but the other firm will look into that and possible strengthening adjustments as well as handling and mating....
The idea was to move into the Mosler scene, but I figured, I love trevor, all I ever wanted was serious shifting power (ie. 100mph in around 5-6 secs)... and if I can do that to her.... then theres no need to save up big dosh 100k+ to pick up a car that makes look like a poser and estrange myself from everyone due to envy... (sad fact of life, I'm sure you know where I'm coming from)...
Cant wait....
Oh and the manifolds point - if you noticed a little while ago, I was looking into getting a new set built....
.... well they are being built as we speak!
By another company, a pretty good price too, the exhaust note will be superb! The cats are also being replaced...
I've already spent in the region of 5k on her this year... looks like that cost will float up just a little wee bit more....
Anyway, I'm talking too much, theres a lot I want to say about whats exactly happening, and the performance figures... but an artist never shows his sketch... I'll be back with the full masterpeice...
Neil, yes we need to hook up sometime, pop me an email, maybe we can grab a game of bowling or something tomorrow or the weekend....
>> Edited by SXS on Thursday 26th August 23:00
Boosted, these are the words out of TVR's engine bible:
"Speed Eight engine components are of extremely high quality such as the pistons and connecting rods which are forged and the camshafts which are rifle bored and are made of solid billet EN40B steel."
and....
"and a block so rigid that it can be used as a stressed member."
"Speed Eight engine components are of extremely high quality such as the pistons and connecting rods which are forged and the camshafts which are rifle bored and are made of solid billet EN40B steel."
and....
"and a block so rigid that it can be used as a stressed member."
[quote=SXS ]Boosted, these are the words out of TVR's engine bible:
"Speed Eight engine components are of extremely high quality such as the pistons and connecting rods which are forged and the camshafts which are rifle bored and are made of solid billet EN40B steel."
and....
"and a block so rigid that it can be used as a stressed member."[/quote]
Good luck to you mate but make sure you do plenty of delvingand ask lots of questions of other people. The 10k rmp limit still isn't realistic imho. There's square laws involved and all sorts of nasty things happen if you're not careful. Call me cautious and all that but I don't see how you can get such a massive reduction in weights and if you can't it's unlikely to be reliable.
Don't know about TVR publications but they aren't exactly gospel are they? I'd rely more on an independant article if there is one. I saw a cerb crank tonight, it was a v8 but I don't know about the capacity. It certainly was a cast iron item and the parting line in the casting was quite evident, the pistons were cast, unslotted AE items (probably quite light) and the rods were typical forgings. As for the block, well I was very impressed with it's light weight but that's been partially achieved by pressed in wet liners so in my mind that's also a big weakness as there is no material supporting them at deck height when compared to a dry liner. It's a trade off which works on the stock engine. If you increase the rpm's by over a third it may not be so favourable. What about boosting it within factory rpm's? Then you'd get to keep the reliability when seen from a mechanical viewpoint.
"Speed Eight engine components are of extremely high quality such as the pistons and connecting rods which are forged and the camshafts which are rifle bored and are made of solid billet EN40B steel."
and....
"and a block so rigid that it can be used as a stressed member."[/quote]
Good luck to you mate but make sure you do plenty of delving
and ask lots of questions of other people. The 10k rmp limit still isn't realistic imho. There's square laws involved and all sorts of nasty things happen if you're not careful. Call me cautious and all that but I don't see how you can get such a massive reduction in weights and if you can't it's unlikely to be reliable. Don't know about TVR publications but they aren't exactly gospel are they? I'd rely more on an independant article if there is one. I saw a cerb crank tonight, it was a v8 but I don't know about the capacity. It certainly was a cast iron item and the parting line in the casting was quite evident, the pistons were cast, unslotted AE items (probably quite light) and the rods were typical forgings. As for the block, well I was very impressed with it's light weight but that's been partially achieved by pressed in wet liners so in my mind that's also a big weakness as there is no material supporting them at deck height when compared to a dry liner. It's a trade off which works on the stock engine. If you increase the rpm's by over a third it may not be so favourable. What about boosting it within factory rpm's? Then you'd get to keep the reliability when seen from a mechanical viewpoint.
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