Buying a new electric guitar after a long break

[Chicken Chaser]

Not quite a break from a guitar as i've had a Tanglewood Acoustic which I pick up quite regularly, but not had an electric guitar for about 15 years.

I've been pretty lazy with the acoustic, playing new songs but not really stretching my repertoire, sticking with the usual chords etc. I've recently started looking at alternative styles, moving away from singer songwriter pop to country/blues. I'm hoping to learn a bit of rockabilly too.

Anyway, after going past the local music shop a few times lately, dropped in to see what they had. I had an old 90s Korean Strat years ago, but i'm looking at possibly a Tele this time around.

Picked up a Fender Standard Tele, sat down and plugged it in. I then seemed to have something alien in my lap and found I could hardly play it. I dont know if this is a shop thing, or whether I'm just not used to playing an electric. I didnt have the comfort of a big jumbo bodied acoustic and chords sounded st on it.

Anyway, after plucking a few strings and running a few poorly fingered scales, I tried a few out but then tried some Strats. I immediately felt more comfortable with the Strats, but didnt know why. I tried a semi-acoustic but had a similar problem here.

Looks like I need to re-learn electric guitar! Budget of £350ish max. Any recommendations?

[davepoth]

£350 is a problematic area. You could go for a top end "budget" model (although they really are very good these days) along the lines of a Squier or a Yamaha Pacifica.

Either that or you go in to a low spec from Fender, since that's about the right money for a Mexican Strat or Tele. Nice enough guitars, but not so special.

Throwing something in from left-field a bit, what about an Epiphone archtop?



http://www.epiphone.com/Products/Archtop/ES-175.as...

An ES-175 for example? I've seen them online for £350.

[mrmaggit]

Lorraine, my other half bought an Epiphone Les Paul a couple of weeks ago, plays the bloody thing for hours a day, now.

[Dr Z]

An electric guitar is by nature married to the amp, so a great electric through an average amp is like an emperor with no clothes. Your electric is only as good as your amp. Conversely, great amps make average electrics sound amazing. I started off with electrics and still have no acoustic, so when I get to pick up my mate's acoustic, it feels very alien to me.

My personal favourite electrics are strats because most often they tend to have all the 'comfort' contours on their body (belly cut/fore-arm contour), so the guitar feels part of you, and whilst I love the sound of my tele, it's feels as if the guitar is keeping you at arms length, with bits poking at you here and there... I love the sound/character enough to ignore this. So it is curious that you found the semi-acoustic weird coming from an acoustic back ground.

Rockabilly you say? Have you considered Gretsch Electromatic Jets? They sound very good stock through a decent amp, but again you'll have to play it yourself to see if you like the feel.

[Chicken Chaser]

Dr Z said:

An electric guitar is by nature married to the amp, so a great electric through an average amp is like an emperor with no clothes. Your electric is only as good as your amp. Conversely, great amps make average electrics sound amazing. I started off with electrics and still have no acoustic, so when I get to pick up my mate's acoustic, it feels very alien to me.

My personal favourite electrics are strats because most often they tend to have all the 'comfort' contours on their body (belly cut/fore-arm contour), so the guitar feels part of you, and whilst I love the sound of my tele, it's feels as if the guitar is keeping you at arms length, with bits poking at you here and there... I love the sound/character enough to ignore this. So it is curious that you found the semi-acoustic weird coming from an acoustic back ground.

Rockabilly you say? Have you considered Gretsch Electromatic Jets? They sound very good stock through a decent amp, but again you'll have to play it yourself to see if you like the feel.

Totally agree on that, guitars through little practice amps sound rubbish. What I'm considering is, buying a guitar and buying something to plug it into my Mac, or using something like a Headphone amp to replicate the sounds that i'd hear with a decent amp, but then buying a decent amp further down the line once I've got some useful sounds to put through it.

Are headphone amps or something like Garage Band any good? I used to just have a 15w practice amp!

[russell_ram]

Not all 'practice' amps are created equal and they have moved on considerably from those crappy 5/10/15 Watt things of a few years back. In fact you can't quite comfortably gig with some of the new breed of low watt, all valve 'practice' amps.

Try a Blackstar HT1 or 5 for example (other brands are available).

Edited by russell_ram on Friday 19th October 12:05

[Dr Z]

Good idea with the interface for starting out. Spend about £100 on a decent interface and monitoring headphones. I got myself a focusrite scarlett 2i2 and a cheap Sennheiser HD 201. You can get free versions of popular guitar modelling software: I've got Amplitube Custom Shop and Guitar Rig 5 Player. I find these perfectly adequate for practising. Whilst these modellers were pretty 'dynamic' in that they react to your pick attack, working the volume control for 'clean-up' and other nuances like a decent tube amp, they are also pretty good at masking deficiencies of a cheaper guitar such as the pickup quality: you are more dependent on the quality of your interface and your monitor speakers/headphones than your guitar.

The amplitube comes free with a few nice models of Fender Deluxe Reverb, Super Reverb, Marshall JCM800, a Bass amp and a few FX pedals. The Guitar Rig 5 comes free with a Marshall JTM45 model (my favourite). Both these software have their advantages and disadvantages in terms of how accurate/authentic the amp models are but they are good for practising/playing alone. For a person starting out, I think these are excellent models to work with, and you can play around with different mic placements and cabs etc. If I had these when I started to play electrics, I would have got better much quicker as the tones you can get are pretty good. Now, I can hear the artificial-ness of the models but it doesn't bother me that much to point of losing the inspiration. Modellers weren't this good when I started out not too long ago.

[2volvos]

http://www.chorder.com/electric-guitars/Yamaha/SA5...

I've got one of these and a Roland Micro Cube and I'm very happy with it. A really classy looking guitar. I paid about £200 for it about 4 years ago and I think it may be out of production now, but Ive seen some in the shops in Birmingham (Fair Deal, PMT etc) recently. CAn't see me wanting or needing anything else for quite a while. The Micro Cubes are about £80.

PS - country blues and rockabilly is what I'm mostly playing too.

[Chicken Chaser]

Dr Z said:

Good idea with the interface for starting out. Spend about £100 on a decent interface and monitoring headphones. I got myself a focusrite scarlett 2i2 and a cheap Sennheiser HD 201. You can get free versions of popular guitar modelling software: I've got Amplitube Custom Shop and Guitar Rig 5 Player. I find these perfectly adequate for practising. Whilst these modellers were pretty 'dynamic' in that they react to your pick attack, working the volume control for 'clean-up' and other nuances like a decent tube amp, they are also pretty good at masking deficiencies of a cheaper guitar such as the pickup quality: you are more dependent on the quality of your interface and your monitor speakers/headphones than your guitar.

The amplitube comes free with a few nice models of Fender Deluxe Reverb, Super Reverb, Marshall JCM800, a Bass amp and a few FX pedals. The Guitar Rig 5 comes free with a Marshall JTM45 model (my favourite). Both these software have their advantages and disadvantages in terms of how accurate/authentic the amp models are but they are good for practising/playing alone. For a person starting out, I think these are excellent models to work with, and you can play around with different mic placements and cabs etc. If I had these when I started to play electrics, I would have got better much quicker as the tones you can get are pretty good. Now, I can hear the artificial-ness of the models but it doesn't bother me that much to point of losing the inspiration. Modellers weren't this good when I started out not too long ago.

Thanks Dr Z, you seem to have your finger on the pulse with this so, could you guide me on this side of it all please? I'm no stranger to computers, but I am with interfaces and hardware when it comes to plugging instruments into one.

Why do I need to spend £100+ on an interface when you can get a USB interface for £20? I'm not being funny when I ask that, i'm just asking that question. It means I dont know the difference between the interface you suggest and a cheaper one. Surely provided I can get the guitar into the computer via USB, then if Garage Band can do the rest, what does that give me that the computer software cant?

[Turn7]

Have a look at the Squier Deluxe Strat or Squiers Vinatge Modified Strat.

Both in budget, Duncan Designed pups and seemingly better than entry level MIMs....

For the record, I have a vintage modified custom Squier Tele with P90S and will be buying one of the above Strats asap.

[Chicken Chaser]

Meant to add that I dropped into the local guitar shop today and was very keen on a Hagstrom Viking deluxe



Played lovely but I'm waiting on them getting stock of a Squier Classic Vibe tele so I can see what its like. 2nd time in the shop this week and after specifically working on a few licks, I didnt play quite as badly as I did at the beginning of the week

[Timberwolf]

The Strat was designed to be a better players' guitar than the Telecaster, which is a very old design and little more than a solid chunk of wood with some basic electrics in it - so it may well feel better. The Tele is a bit of a relic. Totally aware of this, I ended up getting one anyway, because I'm a complete sucker for that bridge pickup, bright tone sound.

Mine's nothing special, just a Mexican-made Standard. I don't know whether it's variance in quality or the shop that sold it doing a decent setup job, but I can't fault the playability or sound at all. I've had "I can't believe this is so good" comments after letting far better guitarists than me have a go on it! You can see where the costs are cut - there are a few knots in the wood, the pickups aren't great and tuning machines only average - but it's all either cosmetic or easy enough to change later.

So try a few if you do want one, I don't know about you but for me buying a guitar is all about stupid emotional attachments and things you think look good rather than what's a sensible choice delivering maximal playability and tonal quality for the budget. Otherwise I've consistently heard good things about Yamaha Pacificas, and a friend of mine has an Ibanez RG at around that budget that he raves about. (Mind you the guy can make a £60 acoustic with an action too high for Felix Baumgartner to jump off sound good...)

[offendi]

Am I the only one thinking of a certain teachers unwise holiday ?

[davepoth]

Timberwolf said:

The Strat was designed to be a better players' guitar than the Telecaster, which is a very old design and little more than a solid chunk of wood with some basic electrics in it - so it may well feel better.

Not strictly true. Leo Fender's main concern was driving down cost. Because all of the electrics are fitted onto the scratchplate of a strat it reduced the manufacturing effort significantly, as did standardising the pickups compared to the two different types in the tele.

Fender borrowed a lot from the automobile industry of the time, going for lots of stuff that looked cool and modern, while ruthlessly removing cost wherever they saw it. Fender guitars became the sound of rock because they were more or less the cheapest electric guitars that would stay in tune.

[ch427]

i quite like epiphone guitars, not too pricey and play very well. All the models ive had a go on have felt really nice.

[Dr Z]

Chicken Chaser said:

Thanks Dr Z, you seem to have your finger on the pulse with this so, could you guide me on this side of it all please? I'm no stranger to computers, but I am with interfaces and hardware when it comes to plugging instruments into one.

Why do I need to spend £100+ on an interface when you can get a USB interface for £20? I'm not being funny when I ask that, i'm just asking that question. It means I dont know the difference between the interface you suggest and a cheaper one. Surely provided I can get the guitar into the computer via USB, then if Garage Band can do the rest, what does that give me that the computer software cant?

Sorry, my bad. I sort of assumed that you might also use it to do some recording with mics and such. No, if you just want to play your guitar through your mac, a £20 interface will probably be good enough (I'm only guessing here, unless you have an interface in mind): I would make sure it has all the drivers sorted with your mac as any form of obvious latency is horrible when playing and listening at the same time. An interface like the Scarlett 2i2 provides two inputs that can act as guitar inputs or mic inputs so in addition to playing through it you could record other instruments (bass, acoustic) or vocals, direct or via mics simultaneously. Also, it has L/R outputs for reference monitors (and of course headphone output for monitoring silently; all 1/4" sockets).

Try out Amplitube Custom Shop/Guitar Rig 5 Player, you get few nice amp models/classic sounds there for you work with to suit your tastes. I'd again stress the importance of making sure the drivers are sorted as that would basically make or break this route.

[Justin Cyder]

davepoth said:

Not strictly true. Leo Fender's main concern was driving down cost.

Whilst not disagreeing with you Dave, because that's true & at risk of splitting hairs, it is true that Leo & Freddie Tavares definitely took lots and lots of feedback from the players at the time when designing the Strat. They incorporated new features like the bevelled rear, individual string saddles & the recessed jack socket for example because they were told by musicians that the Tele had faults in the design.

The emphasis was equally on stiffing the competition as it was on economies of production. It's also true that from about 1958 on,they struggled to meet demand all the way to the CBS sale. Leo wasn't really cut out as a manager & preferred to sit in his office messing about with inventions. He was also a bit of a hypochondriac & I think it was a relief to off load the company in the end.

When he finally did the deal, he sent Don Randall to collect the cheque. $13.2 million dollars, a huge sum of money in 1965.

[davepoth]

Justin Cyder said:

Whilst not disagreeing with you Dave, because that's true & at risk of splitting hairs, it is true that Leo & Freddie Tavares definitely took lots and lots of feedback from the players at the time when designing the Strat. They incorporated new features like the bevelled rear, individual string saddles & the recessed jack socket for example because they were told by musicians that the Tele had faults in the design.

The emphasis was equally on stiffing the competition as it was on economies of production. It's also true that from about 1958 on,they struggled to meet demand all the way to the CBS sale. Leo wasn't really cut out as a manager & preferred to sit in his office messing about with inventions. He was also a bit of a hypochondriac & I think it was a relief to off load the company in the end.

When he finally did the deal, he sent Don Randall to collect the cheque. $13.2 million dollars, a huge sum of money in 1965.

Oh absolutely. The Strat was a lot more playable, without a doubt. But also cheaper. It's a particularly awesome piece of industrial design which is why it's a true classic.

[Chicken Chaser]

Surely both can be said to be design classics though which have stood the test of time?

Sometimes, the simple idea, is the idea that works the best. Why over-complicate things? Why is that in 60 years, we havent really seen a particular advance in guitar tech?

Because the original designs are that good.

Perhaps for personal preference, bridges, pickups and wiring have been swapped and changed but things havent moved on a great deal. I'd much rather play something like a Tele/Strat or Semi over something like a Flying V

[Dr Z]

These days the edges are blurred a little bit in the playability/comfort stakes. A band mate owns a Fender MIA Deluxe tele, and it's got pretty much all the comfort of a strat with a belly cut and what have you. Granted, that's a high end production guitar and the mid-range MIM teles don't have that.

I also love the back pickup in my tele and find it stands out really well in a band situation. People have tried to get the same 'punch' in a strat bridge pickup by putting base plates on them and have got in the ball park I'd say. Difference would be the bridge assembly preventing that full tele vibe: Strats have that 'airy' quality to their sound compared to a tele.