Karting - tell me what to buy!
Discussion
I'd really like to be racing karts next year.
I've a few quid saved up (not much) and would like to be racing a two stroke.
I live in the North East, so have Warden Law and Teesside near by.
Are there any championships running that I can join (and come last in ; ) next year? Rotax engines look like fun...
TELL ME WHAT TO BUY! ; )
Many thanks,
I've a few quid saved up (not much) and would like to be racing a two stroke.
I live in the North East, so have Warden Law and Teesside near by.
Are there any championships running that I can join (and come last in ; ) next year? Rotax engines look like fun...
TELL ME WHAT TO BUY! ; )
Many thanks,
refoman2 said:
nowadays 2 stroke wise youve either got Rotax or TKM so not much choice really
rotax id say is probably the cheaper option,or if you dont want to race then plenty of older outfits around dead cheap,just need to quieten them down a bit to meet local circuits noise regs
Umm how do you figure rotax is the cheeper option!!!.....Tkm is a lot cheeper! rotax id say is probably the cheaper option,or if you dont want to race then plenty of older outfits around dead cheap,just need to quieten them down a bit to meet local circuits noise regs
37chevy said:
refoman2 said:
nowadays 2 stroke wise youve either got Rotax or TKM so not much choice really
rotax id say is probably the cheaper option,or if you dont want to race then plenty of older outfits around dead cheap,just need to quieten them down a bit to meet local circuits noise regs
Umm how do you figure rotax is the cheeper option!!!.....Tkm is a lot cheeper! rotax id say is probably the cheaper option,or if you dont want to race then plenty of older outfits around dead cheap,just need to quieten them down a bit to meet local circuits noise regs
It's a long time since we raced karts but from what I remember you could get most of a season from a Rotax, where the BT82 needed a rebuild every 5 or 6 hours.
Other than that costs are about the same aren't they?
As I said, I'm out of touch so I stand to be corrected.
REALIST123 said:
Is it? Didn't use to be.
It's a long time since we raced karts but from what I remember you could get most of a season from a Rotax, where the BT82 needed a rebuild every 5 or 6 hours.
Other than that costs are about the same aren't they?
As I said, I'm out of touch so I stand to be corrected.
Tkm was definitely cheaper when I raced karts about 6 years ago. The engines may need more frequent rebuilds but most other stuff was cheaper and the tyres lasted a lot longer. Max guys would run a set for each meet us tkm guys certainly never did. I guess part of it depends on what others around you are doing. If everyone is sensible on costs then max could be cheap. Problem is people always want to buy a few seconds. Racers nature really!It's a long time since we raced karts but from what I remember you could get most of a season from a Rotax, where the BT82 needed a rebuild every 5 or 6 hours.
Other than that costs are about the same aren't they?
As I said, I'm out of touch so I stand to be corrected.
With regards what to buy I'd say check out what's being run at your circuit. If the max grids are big go max. I'd personally recommend it as I think the karts are easier to get the best out of and there are loads of outfits out there now.
Try and buy something that has been raced this season as it should be fine for next. Make sure the engine has the seals etc.
Get a lap timer and get out in it all the time. You will definitely start at the back by doesn't mean you have to finish there.
Final word of warning, karting costs, a lot! You may set out wanting to keep costs down but watch every spare penny get chucked in during the year.
Best bet is to come along to one of the meetings and have a look to see what takes your fancy.
Teesside meeting is this weekend 28th (final round) and runs in between the corporate karts so that is quite a lot of free time between heats to ask questions etc. Teesside only have a prokart championship.
Warden Law is the weekend after (final round) and there are a multitude of classes to race in.
As in every type of motorsport the people at the front do spend more than most but they are also out racing or practicing 2 or 3 times a month and have done for a number of years.
Benefit of prokarts at warden law is there is 2 grid so even a newbie can have the chance of winning a trophy or too which boosts your confidence...
Pays your money and takes your choice...
I will be at warden law and Teesside prokart 28 (pink graphics) and happy to answer any questions.
Ross
Teesside meeting is this weekend 28th (final round) and runs in between the corporate karts so that is quite a lot of free time between heats to ask questions etc. Teesside only have a prokart championship.
Warden Law is the weekend after (final round) and there are a multitude of classes to race in.
As in every type of motorsport the people at the front do spend more than most but they are also out racing or practicing 2 or 3 times a month and have done for a number of years.
Benefit of prokarts at warden law is there is 2 grid so even a newbie can have the chance of winning a trophy or too which boosts your confidence...
Pays your money and takes your choice...
I will be at warden law and Teesside prokart 28 (pink graphics) and happy to answer any questions.
Ross
Ross_328i_sport said:
Best bet is to come along to one of the meetings and have a look to see what takes your fancy.
Teesside meeting is this weekend 28th (final round) and runs in between the corporate karts so that is quite a lot of free time between heats to ask questions etc. Teesside only have a prokart championship.
Warden Law is the weekend after (final round) and there are a multitude of classes to race in.
As in every type of motorsport the people at the front do spend more than most but they are also out racing or practicing 2 or 3 times a month and have done for a number of years.
Benefit of prokarts at warden law is there is 2 grid so even a newbie can have the chance of winning a trophy or too which boosts your confidence...
Pays your money and takes your choice...
I will be at warden law and Teesside prokart 28 (pink graphics) and happy to answer any questions.
Ross
Excellent!Teesside meeting is this weekend 28th (final round) and runs in between the corporate karts so that is quite a lot of free time between heats to ask questions etc. Teesside only have a prokart championship.
Warden Law is the weekend after (final round) and there are a multitude of classes to race in.
As in every type of motorsport the people at the front do spend more than most but they are also out racing or practicing 2 or 3 times a month and have done for a number of years.
Benefit of prokarts at warden law is there is 2 grid so even a newbie can have the chance of winning a trophy or too which boosts your confidence...
Pays your money and takes your choice...
I will be at warden law and Teesside prokart 28 (pink graphics) and happy to answer any questions.
Ross
I'll be at Teesside this weekend anyway, racing a four stroke in the enduro! Think that starts around 5pm ish?
SmartVenom said:
REALIST123 said:
Is it? Didn't use to be.
It's a long time since we raced karts but from what I remember you could get most of a season from a Rotax, where the BT82 needed a rebuild every 5 or 6 hours.
Other than that costs are about the same aren't they?
As I said, I'm out of touch so I stand to be corrected.
Tkm was definitely cheaper when I raced karts about 6 years ago. The engines may need more frequent rebuilds but most other stuff was cheaper and the tyres lasted a lot longer. Max guys would run a set for each meet us tkm guys certainly never did. I guess part of it depends on what others around you are doing. If everyone is sensible on costs then max could be cheap. Problem is people always want to buy a few seconds. Racers nature really!It's a long time since we raced karts but from what I remember you could get most of a season from a Rotax, where the BT82 needed a rebuild every 5 or 6 hours.
Other than that costs are about the same aren't they?
As I said, I'm out of touch so I stand to be corrected.
With regards what to buy I'd say check out what's being run at your circuit. If the max grids are big go max. I'd personally recommend it as I think the karts are easier to get the best out of and there are loads of outfits out there now.
Try and buy something that has been raced this season as it should be fine for next. Make sure the engine has the seals etc.
Get a lap timer and get out in it all the time. You will definitely start at the back by doesn't mean you have to finish there.
Final word of warning, karting costs, a lot! You may set out wanting to keep costs down but watch every spare penny get chucked in during the year.
REALIST123 said:
OK. When we did TKM, 1996 to 2001, we were using at least one new set of tyres each race meeting. There would always be someone doing that so if you wanted to run at the front, you had to.
I was lucky there wasn't really any one doing that, actually it wasn't too chequebook at all in tkm at my club but the grids were ever dwindling. Max had very good grids although I was told the other day that they aren't even the number one class now. I haven't really kept an eye on karting so I don't know what the popular engine of choice is nowadays. Feeling old now!pablo said:
Spend a day at Whilton Mill with Pro-Train? and see what they are all about. i'd be surprised if you still want to race a prokart after a day in a rotax max... faster, lighter, better handling....
Exhaust I am not dis-agreeing with you and have looked at racing max before, however the pro kart grids in the north east are larger than the rotax grid which is one of the main reasons for me choosing prokarts.
At the age we are we are never going to make it as professional drivers however most would like to be at the sharp end of the grid and with prokarts once a competitive outfit is bought it can be run relatively cheaply and everybody will talk to you and give you advice etc. My experience of max is the total opposite nobody at the sharp end speaks to each other and all run with team spending £'s with super 1 engines and carbs.
I have also heard many drivers come from max that can't drive a prokart whereas if you can drive a prokart fast you are generally quick in a max.
The prokart was suggested is merely an alternative option and the above is my opinion only. Each person needs to make their own choice.
Regards
Ross
Ross_328i_sport said:
pablo said:
Spend a day at Whilton Mill with Pro-Train? and see what they are all about. i'd be surprised if you still want to race a prokart after a day in a rotax max... faster, lighter, better handling....
Exhaust I am not dis-agreeing with you and have looked at racing max before, however the pro kart grids in the north east are larger than the rotax grid which is one of the main reasons for me choosing prokarts.
At the age we are we are never going to make it as professional drivers however most would like to be at the sharp end of the grid and with prokarts once a competitive outfit is bought it can be run relatively cheaply and everybody will talk to you and give you advice etc. My experience of max is the total opposite nobody at the sharp end speaks to each other and all run with team spending £'s with super 1 engines and carbs.
I have also heard many drivers come from max that can't drive a prokart whereas if you can drive a prokart fast you are generally quick in a max.
The prokart was suggested is merely an alternative option and the above is my opinion only. Each person needs to make their own choice.
Regards
Ross
^^This. Also nothing where a company has a monopoly on race parts is going to be "cheap"
When I was looking into karting and had a couple of mates doing it competitively (in small grids unfortunately) when all the costs were added up at the end of the season and some tears were shed, rotax worked out cheaper in the long run as the units are more reliable. Karting is more about time testing and a rotax engine will do about 50 hours before its on its last legs, which mean less engines to more track time. Ok it wont be competitive after 30 hours but you still have a decent enough testing engine.
When I was looking into karting and had a couple of mates doing it competitively (in small grids unfortunately) when all the costs were added up at the end of the season and some tears were shed, rotax worked out cheaper in the long run as the units are more reliable. Karting is more about time testing and a rotax engine will do about 50 hours before its on its last legs, which mean less engines to more track time. Ok it wont be competitive after 30 hours but you still have a decent enough testing engine.
DanTVR said:
^^This. Also nothing where a company has a monopoly on race parts is going to be "cheap"
When I was looking into karting and had a couple of mates doing it competitively (in small grids unfortunately) when all the costs were added up at the end of the season and some tears were shed, rotax worked out cheaper in the long run as the units are more reliable. Karting is more about time testing and a rotax engine will do about 50 hours before its on its last legs, which mean less engines to more track time. Ok it wont be competitive after 30 hours but you still have a decent enough testing engine.
How much should an engine cost, and how difficult is it to swap out?When I was looking into karting and had a couple of mates doing it competitively (in small grids unfortunately) when all the costs were added up at the end of the season and some tears were shed, rotax worked out cheaper in the long run as the units are more reliable. Karting is more about time testing and a rotax engine will do about 50 hours before its on its last legs, which mean less engines to more track time. Ok it wont be competitive after 30 hours but you still have a decent enough testing engine.
Is it worth buying two, having one test engine and one race? Keep the race units hour low, and hammer the test unit?
My man maths suggest this is a good idea, but I'll assume someone with half a brain will sneer at this as it doesnt at up at all... Ha.
MocMocaMoc said:
How much should an engine cost, and how difficult is it to swap out?
Is it worth buying two, having one test engine and one race? Keep the race units hour low, and hammer the test unit?
My man maths suggest this is a good idea, but I'll assume someone with half a brain will sneer at this as it doesnt at up at all... Ha.
a good engine (ie one form a race winning kart with a proven bulid history from the likes of Ogden et al) will be about £2k and a rebuild can vary from £250 for a quick fresh up to at least £1k for pretty much everything new (conrod assy etc) and rebuilt, dyno'd with the log card. I bought an engine with no history or log card and i think i spent about £1k on it to get it ready for the OEKC but never raced it. it felt nice and strong but reliability was the key not outright speed.Is it worth buying two, having one test engine and one race? Keep the race units hour low, and hammer the test unit?
My man maths suggest this is a good idea, but I'll assume someone with half a brain will sneer at this as it doesnt at up at all... Ha.
the problem is, you are talking about 1/2 bhp making a world of difference at the front end and when you say "engine" you really have to think of it as carb, block, head, exhaust as one. people will say the 2006 block was the best and the 2009 head etc, this stuff changes hands for stupid money based on the paddock rumours and the fact that driver A won the title with that combo but it could be as much about carb settings or something else...
a stock rotax max built to spec should produce about 29.5 bhp but some engines have dyno reading showing 31 and that 1.5 bhp, if matched with awell set up carb and exhaust, could feel like double.
having two good engines isnt a bad idea as faults can appear with the timing etc and ruin a weekend, maybe a race engine and a second engine would be more affordable. test with no.2, race with no.1.
then you are talking tyres......
good luck!!!pablo said:
MocMocaMoc said:
How much should an engine cost, and how difficult is it to swap out?
Is it worth buying two, having one test engine and one race? Keep the race units hour low, and hammer the test unit?
My man maths suggest this is a good idea, but I'll assume someone with half a brain will sneer at this as it doesnt at up at all... Ha.
a good engine (ie one form a race winning kart with a proven bulid history from the likes of Ogden et al) will be about £2k and a rebuild can vary from £250 for a quick fresh up to at least £1k for pretty much everything new (conrod assy etc) and rebuilt, dyno'd with the log card. I bought an engine with no history or log card and i think i spent about £1k on it to get it ready for the OEKC but never raced it. it felt nice and strong but reliability was the key not outright speed.Is it worth buying two, having one test engine and one race? Keep the race units hour low, and hammer the test unit?
My man maths suggest this is a good idea, but I'll assume someone with half a brain will sneer at this as it doesnt at up at all... Ha.
the problem is, you are talking about 1/2 bhp making a world of difference at the front end and when you say "engine" you really have to think of it as carb, block, head, exhaust as one. people will say the 2006 block was the best and the 2009 head etc, this stuff changes hands for stupid money based on the paddock rumours and the fact that driver A won the title with that combo but it could be as much about carb settings or something else...
a stock rotax max built to spec should produce about 29.5 bhp but some engines have dyno reading showing 31 and that 1.5 bhp, if matched with awell set up carb and exhaust, could feel like double.
having two good engines isnt a bad idea as faults can appear with the timing etc and ruin a weekend, maybe a race engine and a second engine would be more affordable. test with no.2, race with no.1.
then you are talking tyres......
good luck!!!So when I'm looking at packages online (on PH) costing south of £2k, they're just not going to be anywhere near competitive? I don't expect my driving to be competitive, mind!
I was thinking less than a grand for an engine!
when you drive a prokart then get in a 2 stroke you will wonder what you ever thought about prokarts for! understeer city as they are so back heavy. and if your doing pro-karting properly they cost just as much as 2 strokes if you want to be competitive
give club 100 a go,even if you just do the odd round to see what you think before investing a shed load in equipment
give club 100 a go,even if you just do the odd round to see what you think before investing a shed load in equipment
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