Help! First NIP - for Dangerous Driving!
Discussion
Hey guys,
Hope you can give me some genuine advice.
I got an NIP in the post this morning from a police station for "Dangerous Driving", at a named road, date and location.
All I got was the NIP and declaration form on the same sheet of paper. No other details are attached.
This "offence" would have been comitted on my commute to work. I think, based on the circumstances, that the NIP is a result of someone getting stressed up over an overtaking maneouvre or something like that (I stress categorically now that I never perform stupid moves!) and reporting me to the plod.
I have 28 days to fill it in.
Where do I stand and what are my options?
D
>>> Edited by -DeaDLocK- on Saturday 28th August 11:17
Hope you can give me some genuine advice.
I got an NIP in the post this morning from a police station for "Dangerous Driving", at a named road, date and location.
All I got was the NIP and declaration form on the same sheet of paper. No other details are attached.
This "offence" would have been comitted on my commute to work. I think, based on the circumstances, that the NIP is a result of someone getting stressed up over an overtaking maneouvre or something like that (I stress categorically now that I never perform stupid moves!) and reporting me to the plod.
I have 28 days to fill it in.
Where do I stand and what are my options?
D
>>> Edited by -DeaDLocK- on Saturday 28th August 11:17
If they've 172'd you asking for who was the driver...respond ASAP...we've learned recently that it could cost you £750+ if you fail to do this...
Then, wait and see...If you can afford it...get a solicitor for court as you could theoretically lose your licence for dangerous driving...
Let us know more about the offence if you need further precise info..(beware not to include place names, times etc on here)
Street
Then, wait and see...If you can afford it...get a solicitor for court as you could theoretically lose your licence for dangerous driving...
Let us know more about the offence if you need further precise info..(beware not to include place names, times etc on here)
Street
Thanks Streetcop.
All I got was the NIP with the S172 request to name the driver - nothing more.
It gives the location, road and time, but no other details are supplied.
I cannot recall doing anything dangerous or reckless.
I am willing to stump up cash in return for getting away cleanly with no hassles, but if this can be avoided then obviously I'd like to do it.
I am most curious about what this offence relates to; i.e. what on earth did I do? Sounds like an annoyed witness report.
I do not want to do anything that could lead to self-incrimination at this stage.
I'm a bit worried as DD sounds fairly serious, but this is my first ever offence after a few years of driving so maybe I'm paranoid (prison??!!
).
Thanks for any advice.
D
All I got was the NIP with the S172 request to name the driver - nothing more.
It gives the location, road and time, but no other details are supplied.
I cannot recall doing anything dangerous or reckless.
I am willing to stump up cash in return for getting away cleanly with no hassles, but if this can be avoided then obviously I'd like to do it.
I am most curious about what this offence relates to; i.e. what on earth did I do? Sounds like an annoyed witness report.
I do not want to do anything that could lead to self-incrimination at this stage.
I'm a bit worried as DD sounds fairly serious, but this is my first ever offence after a few years of driving so maybe I'm paranoid (prison??!!
). Thanks for any advice.
D
I'm concerned that you don't know what you did at that time.
There will be an officer's name somewhere on the documents. There's nothing stopping you ringing the officer and asking him/her directly what it's concerning.
Dang Driving can be many things...from simple tailgaiting to dangerous overtaking.
Street
There will be an officer's name somewhere on the documents. There's nothing stopping you ringing the officer and asking him/her directly what it's concerning.
Dang Driving can be many things...from simple tailgaiting to dangerous overtaking.
Street
Don't stress. Firstly, you need to think back. What was the date of the alleged offence?
You need to find out what's been alleged while your memory is fresh.
The best advice when speaking to plod is never to admit anything you did was dangerous. You can admit to the events, but not that they were dangerous.
Expressions such as "Yes, I made the overtake. I was aware of X people stood in Y location. I was being followed by Z vehicle At no point were my actions a danger to myself or anyone else!"
If there is only one witness, it's your word against theirs. That would be very unlikely to make it to court. If you are sure of your facts, don't be tempted into accepting a bribe for due care and attention, just stick politely to your guns.
Been there, done it, had the interview
You need to find out what's been alleged while your memory is fresh.
The best advice when speaking to plod is never to admit anything you did was dangerous. You can admit to the events, but not that they were dangerous.
Expressions such as "Yes, I made the overtake. I was aware of X people stood in Y location. I was being followed by Z vehicle At no point were my actions a danger to myself or anyone else!"
If there is only one witness, it's your word against theirs. That would be very unlikely to make it to court. If you are sure of your facts, don't be tempted into accepting a bribe for due care and attention, just stick politely to your guns.
Been there, done it, had the interview
-DeaDLocK- said:
I do not want to do anything that could lead to self-incrimination at this stage.
Sounds like it is a request to name the driver under S172. In which case (providing you know who it is) you have to respond with the name of the driver.
If it was you, I would expect you would get a phone call / visit from BiB for "your side of the story"
bluepolarbear said:
[
If it was you, I would expect you would get a phone call / visit from BiB for "your side of the story"
mmmmm
If thats the case and they need to speak to you if you were out every time they came or phoned would they give up and drop the case after several months/visits? or would they just not give up ever and track you to the ends of the earth 
Just an idea.
Is it also worth considering if you actually want to fill out the S172 at all, if you compare the possible penalties for each:-
Dangerous Driving:-
Imprisonment: 2 years
Max Fine: Unlimited
Disqualification: Obligatory
Penalty Points: 3-11 (if exceptionally not disqualified)
S172 (Failing to identify driver of a vehicle):-
Max Fine: £1000
Disqualification: Discretionary
Penalty Points: 3
I'm also fairly sure that Idris has said before that when the Privy Council, on appeal reversed the decision of the Scottish High Court that the right to silence was sacrosanct, it did so explicitly only
for those offences that involved "modest" fines and no imprisonment.
Therefore you may have a "right to silence" in terms of whether to fill out the form or not (as Dangerous Driving has unlimited fine & possible imprisonment).
If the police call you definitely have a right to silence - you probably don't want to give them the evidence that you were the driver.
Dangerous Driving:-
Imprisonment: 2 years
Max Fine: Unlimited
Disqualification: Obligatory
Penalty Points: 3-11 (if exceptionally not disqualified)
S172 (Failing to identify driver of a vehicle):-
Max Fine: £1000
Disqualification: Discretionary
Penalty Points: 3
I'm also fairly sure that Idris has said before that when the Privy Council, on appeal reversed the decision of the Scottish High Court that the right to silence was sacrosanct, it did so explicitly only
for those offences that involved "modest" fines and no imprisonment.
Therefore you may have a "right to silence" in terms of whether to fill out the form or not (as Dangerous Driving has unlimited fine & possible imprisonment).
If the police call you definitely have a right to silence - you probably don't want to give them the evidence that you were the driver.
Streetcop said:
Been there, done it, had the interview
Got banned for two years and had to pay £££ in fines..
Only kidding Bliarout mate..
Street
It was the point when she said the front of my car dipped violently (her words) under braking that the interview started to fall apart... She was behind me!
Oh, that and I drove a car which didn't actually dip under braking either. Like I said, if you're not guilty, state your reasons clearly as to why you are not and move on
In my case they smiled as they mentioned she was a member of the IAM. They frowned when I mentioned being an advanced motorcyclist
Deadlock - got your mail, but thought it best to reply on here. I "got off" without even being told what I was supposed to have done. I did this by metophorically inserting the law into the backside of the creep Officer who sent out the erroneous NIP. However I have since found that although I "got away" with it, I am on the unofficial hit list and will get stung at every opportunity "they" can manage. Some victory huh? Right, forget about that for now, back to your problem.
Firstly you MUST call them and find out what is meant to have occured.
Second, get back online and tell your fellow PH'ers.
Third, you need to request *proof* that your vehicle was actually spotted, and not someone elses, before you acknowledge that you may have been there. And do you have an alibi for the time?
Fourth, as you've been a resident for so long, I trust that you haven't been a muppet - but as a friendly "warning" to 1st time posters asking for help, you ain't earnt any respect if you come on here asking without having built up some credibility.
Ok mate, post back here ASAP and we'll see what we can suggest. A letter written to them can work wonders tho', as it lays the ground for your defense. eg, you don't sign anything that doesn't describe what you are signing for.....
Best of luck Deadlock, I will mail on my return to work & we can natter offline.
cheers all, if you can help, please do.
Carl
Firstly you MUST call them and find out what is meant to have occured.
Second, get back online and tell your fellow PH'ers.
Third, you need to request *proof* that your vehicle was actually spotted, and not someone elses, before you acknowledge that you may have been there. And do you have an alibi for the time?
Fourth, as you've been a resident for so long, I trust that you haven't been a muppet - but as a friendly "warning" to 1st time posters asking for help, you ain't earnt any respect if you come on here asking without having built up some credibility.
Ok mate, post back here ASAP and we'll see what we can suggest. A letter written to them can work wonders tho', as it lays the ground for your defense. eg, you don't sign anything that doesn't describe what you are signing for.....
Best of luck Deadlock, I will mail on my return to work & we can natter offline.
cheers all, if you can help, please do.
Carl
Hello All, 
been away for a few days and looks like everyone has been getting hot under the collar!(BiB Parking Thread!), or been done for alleged Dangerous Driving..
DeaDlock - Firstly relax, you have not been convicted of anything yet. The Law is an ass... and an extremely slow one at that.
Take all the advice that has been offered on here, and 'nightmares' DD thread. Make contact with the Police to find out details etc. Get Legal advice at the earliest opportunity.
An allegation is exactly that... Before the complaining driver walked into the Station to make the complaint, the BiB knew nothing about the incident(I presume) whatsoever. They then have to go through all the motions to investigate this like every other complaint. NIP's, HO/RT1 and even interviews are all part of this process. They then assess the facts and a decision is made - this can be done at the station or if the case is more complicated, by CPS.
When you are interviewed, if you just tell it exactly as YOU interpreted the situation and ,as mentioned earlier, dont admit to the allegations - it will be very hard to get convicted on the sole evidence of one person. CPS will just not run it. Christ they hardly ever run it if one of us witnesses something and its just BiB v the offender!
Unless there is corroborating evidence(that could be hard evidence - your paint on their car/CCTV etc, or verbal evidence - another independent witness statement) in cases of Careless or Dangerous Driving, the case will most likely be dropped.
Now that doesnt mean that the paperwork you receive wont have errors in it - this is a human system after all! So check it thoroughly. But do not be affraid of putting your side of the story. Its just that as they complained first...you will be the one interviewed!
This applies to everyone who is accused/charged of a driving offence by an unkhown MOP. Its a story about an incident to which the BiB only have one side of. They have to get the other side of the story before they do anything. If thats a 'don't remember that incident' or 'my overtake was perfectly safe', then so be it...if thats the only evidence against you, the case will more than likely be dropped after the Prosecutions Examiner has read it.
...however, if, for example, you overtook four people on a solid white and the oncoming car swerved and fashed his lights - and they ALL say that! ...Your Doomed Mr. Mainwaring!
Hope this will alleviate some fears.
Good luck Deadlock
Rgds
been away for a few days and looks like everyone has been getting hot under the collar!(BiB Parking Thread!), or been done for alleged Dangerous Driving.. DeaDlock - Firstly relax, you have not been convicted of anything yet. The Law is an ass... and an extremely slow one at that.
Take all the advice that has been offered on here, and 'nightmares' DD thread. Make contact with the Police to find out details etc. Get Legal advice at the earliest opportunity.
An allegation is exactly that... Before the complaining driver walked into the Station to make the complaint, the BiB knew nothing about the incident(I presume) whatsoever. They then have to go through all the motions to investigate this like every other complaint. NIP's, HO/RT1 and even interviews are all part of this process. They then assess the facts and a decision is made - this can be done at the station or if the case is more complicated, by CPS.
When you are interviewed, if you just tell it exactly as YOU interpreted the situation and ,as mentioned earlier, dont admit to the allegations - it will be very hard to get convicted on the sole evidence of one person. CPS will just not run it. Christ they hardly ever run it if one of us witnesses something and its just BiB v the offender!
Unless there is corroborating evidence(that could be hard evidence - your paint on their car/CCTV etc, or verbal evidence - another independent witness statement) in cases of Careless or Dangerous Driving, the case will most likely be dropped.
Now that doesnt mean that the paperwork you receive wont have errors in it - this is a human system after all! So check it thoroughly. But do not be affraid of putting your side of the story. Its just that as they complained first...you will be the one interviewed!
This applies to everyone who is accused/charged of a driving offence by an unkhown MOP. Its a story about an incident to which the BiB only have one side of. They have to get the other side of the story before they do anything. If thats a 'don't remember that incident' or 'my overtake was perfectly safe', then so be it...if thats the only evidence against you, the case will more than likely be dropped after the Prosecutions Examiner has read it.
...however, if, for example, you overtook four people on a solid white and the oncoming car swerved and fashed his lights - and they ALL say that! ...Your Doomed Mr. Mainwaring!
Hope this will alleviate some fears.
Good luck Deadlock
Rgds
Thanks folks.
I've clamed down a bit since the initial post, having done some proper research. Just the initial scare I guess of having been accused for the first time - and a serious charge at that!
I will find out tommorow what the allegations are based on, and then report back here. I have a feeling that they are the result of an irate motorist making an unnecesarilly malicious report, simply because if I had done anything really naughty I no doubt would have remembered it.
My initial fears were because many people that I asked said that it is unlikely that the NIP was a result of a civilian complaint, and hence I got horror stories in my head about trying to argue with the BiB in court over a DD charge!
Hertsbiker, thanks for responding, perfectly understandable on the credibility front. If it helps I've attended PF, Brunters and my local meets. :P But still haven't done BTaP, so I must be a muppet.
Anyway thanks for the advice so far, and I'll update here as I progress through the issue.
D
>> Edited by -DeaDLocK- on Monday 30th August 12:07
I've clamed down a bit since the initial post, having done some proper research. Just the initial scare I guess of having been accused for the first time - and a serious charge at that!
I will find out tommorow what the allegations are based on, and then report back here. I have a feeling that they are the result of an irate motorist making an unnecesarilly malicious report, simply because if I had done anything really naughty I no doubt would have remembered it.
My initial fears were because many people that I asked said that it is unlikely that the NIP was a result of a civilian complaint, and hence I got horror stories in my head about trying to argue with the BiB in court over a DD charge!
Hertsbiker, thanks for responding, perfectly understandable on the credibility front. If it helps I've attended PF, Brunters and my local meets. :P But still haven't done BTaP, so I must be a muppet.
Anyway thanks for the advice so far, and I'll update here as I progress through the issue.
D
>> Edited by -DeaDLocK- on Monday 30th August 12:07
Hopefully you have done nothing yet apart from speaking to a solicitor!
Dangerous driving is more serious than drink driving and you may well want to try and take the options of not disclosing who was driving (this may not be possible if the car is registerd to you)
Its very likely they are fishing for additional evidence and don't yet know any evidence other than what a member of the public reported.
You need a solicitor before you say anything to anyone (including work colleagues - you could get suspended).
if you want the name of a good solicitor just shout.
Good luck
Dangerous driving is more serious than drink driving and you may well want to try and take the options of not disclosing who was driving (this may not be possible if the car is registerd to you)
Its very likely they are fishing for additional evidence and don't yet know any evidence other than what a member of the public reported.
You need a solicitor before you say anything to anyone (including work colleagues - you could get suspended).
if you want the name of a good solicitor just shout.
Good luck
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