genuine value help needed
Discussion
Hey,
the situation is as follows. My father has two Hillman Avengers and due to me expecting a baby and being in Australia he has decided to sell one so they can book flights to be here at the birth.
Its a Hillman Avenger with a difference
its been completely rebuilt - all panels replaced - full respray, a vauxhall 2.0 red top with all running gear, custom alloy fuel tank and complete exhaust system.
bucket seats with custom interior, new suspension etc, Period Alloys (cant remember the name)
basically its a new car- he only has to fit a new vinyl roof which is being done this week, pretty much ready for classic rallying
what is it worth? It seems one in good condition is fetching 3k plus but thats standard
I will try to get some photos off him today to help
the situation is as follows. My father has two Hillman Avengers and due to me expecting a baby and being in Australia he has decided to sell one so they can book flights to be here at the birth.
Its a Hillman Avenger with a difference
its been completely rebuilt - all panels replaced - full respray, a vauxhall 2.0 red top with all running gear, custom alloy fuel tank and complete exhaust system.
bucket seats with custom interior, new suspension etc, Period Alloys (cant remember the name)
basically its a new car- he only has to fit a new vinyl roof which is being done this week, pretty much ready for classic rallying
what is it worth? It seems one in good condition is fetching 3k plus but thats standard
I will try to get some photos off him today to help
A customised car might be trickier to sell than a bog-standard, back-to-original one. Would historic rallying not require it to be running an original Hillman engine, or at least block? *
Sounds like a one-off that's for sure, I remember a neighbour having a new one in silver, bought I think at the time of the silver jubilee. It'll be interesting to see the photos of your dad's example.
RJ
Sounds like a one-off that's for sure, I remember a neighbour having a new one in silver, bought I think at the time of the silver jubilee. It'll be interesting to see the photos of your dad's example.
RJ
- btw I'm not savvy with current historic regs so could be talking cobblers
Current allowable Historic Rally car modifications for an Avenger as follows:
Category 2 Avenger
Permitted modifications supported by documented evidence.
Engine.
1300cc or 1600cc OHV
Electronic ignition.
Lucas or Luminition Optronic replacement system.
Carburation.
Twin Weber or Delorto. 40 or 45 DCOE. Twin 1.5, Stromberg CDS
Gearbox.
Four syncromesh. The original gearbox may be replaced with a four speed Ford RS2000 or Bullet gearbox providing the original internal ratio´s/gears are retained.
Rear Axle.
Standard axle with LSD.
Brakes.
Front.
Original Solid brake disc and 2 piston Brake Caliper.
Girling M16 2 piston Brake Calipers.
Rear:
Standard drum. Chrysler 180 disc and caliper assemblies
Hand Brake:
Hydraulic handbrake is permitted.
Master Cylinders.
Single outlet master cylinders may be replaced by a Tandem or Twin cylinder arrangement.
The fitting of a dual master cylinder or any other type of device providing a simultaneous action on all four wheels and divided action on two wheels is permitted, providing the original brake pedal and pivot point are used.
The remote brake bias adjuster must be positioned so that it cannot be adjusted by either the driver or co-driver when normally seated in the car.
Suspension.
Front.
Mc Pherson Strut.
Rear.
Telescopic.
A front strut brace is allowed.
Wheels and Tyres
70 profile tyres minimum.
A maximum rim width of 7 inches is permitted.
General.
Fibre glass bonnet and boot lid.
Composite Side windows.
Alloy centrally mounted replacement petrol tank.
Bumpers must be fitted front and rear.
Digital display dashes and instruments are not permitted.
Body Shell.
The shells in standard form suffer from cracking on the front screen pillars.
This can be overcome by inserting a 5/8inch steel tube up the inside of the pillar and welding in place.
Category 2 Avenger
Permitted modifications supported by documented evidence.
Engine.
1300cc or 1600cc OHV
Electronic ignition.
Lucas or Luminition Optronic replacement system.
Carburation.
Twin Weber or Delorto. 40 or 45 DCOE. Twin 1.5, Stromberg CDS
Gearbox.
Four syncromesh. The original gearbox may be replaced with a four speed Ford RS2000 or Bullet gearbox providing the original internal ratio´s/gears are retained.
Rear Axle.
Standard axle with LSD.
Brakes.
Front.
Original Solid brake disc and 2 piston Brake Caliper.
Girling M16 2 piston Brake Calipers.
Rear:
Standard drum. Chrysler 180 disc and caliper assemblies
Hand Brake:
Hydraulic handbrake is permitted.
Master Cylinders.
Single outlet master cylinders may be replaced by a Tandem or Twin cylinder arrangement.
The fitting of a dual master cylinder or any other type of device providing a simultaneous action on all four wheels and divided action on two wheels is permitted, providing the original brake pedal and pivot point are used.
The remote brake bias adjuster must be positioned so that it cannot be adjusted by either the driver or co-driver when normally seated in the car.
Suspension.
Front.
Mc Pherson Strut.
Rear.
Telescopic.
A front strut brace is allowed.
Wheels and Tyres
70 profile tyres minimum.
A maximum rim width of 7 inches is permitted.
General.
Fibre glass bonnet and boot lid.
Composite Side windows.
Alloy centrally mounted replacement petrol tank.
Bumpers must be fitted front and rear.
Digital display dashes and instruments are not permitted.
Body Shell.
The shells in standard form suffer from cracking on the front screen pillars.
This can be overcome by inserting a 5/8inch steel tube up the inside of the pillar and welding in place.
Currently that Avenger would be allowed on (non Historic) Road Rallies, but it's highly likely from next year it would be excluded from those too, given it's not eligible for Historics either it could only be used on hillclimbs and sprints as a compitition car. Or of course as an fun road car, which I'm sure it certainly would be.
Nothing stopping somebody having the motor out and changing it for something more appropriate, but I'd say it's value will suffer because of the Red Top. 3K doesn't sound too far out, perhaps a bit more.
Nothing stopping somebody having the motor out and changing it for something more appropriate, but I'd say it's value will suffer because of the Red Top. 3K doesn't sound too far out, perhaps a bit more.
I know a lot of people dislike Ebay but I find it fine and it will tell you the market value of the car.
Let's face it, it's an old modified Avenger, nothing special at all and I can't envisage why anyone would pay more than £1500 quid for it.
Tens of thousands of enthusiasts trawl Ebay every day and it's simply not possible for a gem to slip through the net for peanuts. If anything, multiple interest drives prices up.
Now it may be the seller thinks it's worth £5K - that's their perogative - but the fact is that if they are serious about selling it, the market dictates the price.
As with all negotiations, the seller should start by working out the minimum they will accept and what they would ideally like for the car.
The minimum is their reserve and anything above that is a bonus but bear in mind that if the minimum figure is unrealistic it will be pointless even offering the car for sale.
Let's face it, it's an old modified Avenger, nothing special at all and I can't envisage why anyone would pay more than £1500 quid for it.
Tens of thousands of enthusiasts trawl Ebay every day and it's simply not possible for a gem to slip through the net for peanuts. If anything, multiple interest drives prices up.
Now it may be the seller thinks it's worth £5K - that's their perogative - but the fact is that if they are serious about selling it, the market dictates the price.
As with all negotiations, the seller should start by working out the minimum they will accept and what they would ideally like for the car.
The minimum is their reserve and anything above that is a bonus but bear in mind that if the minimum figure is unrealistic it will be pointless even offering the car for sale.
Edited by 9mm on Monday 12th November 15:12
9mm said:
I know a lot of people dislike Ebay but I find it fine and it will tell you the market value of the car.
Let's face it, it's an old modified Avenger, nothing special at all and I can't envisage why anyone would pay more than £1500 quid for it.
Tens of thousands of enthusiasts trawl Ebay every day and it's simply not possible for a gem to slip through the net for peanuts. If anything, multiple interest drives prices up.
Now it may be the seller thinks it's worth £5K - that's their perogative - but the fact is that if they are serious about selling it, the market dictates the price.
As with all negotiations, the seller should start by working out the minimum they will accept and what they would ideally like for the car.
The minimum is their reserve and anything above that is a bonus but bear in mind that if the minimum figure is unrealistic it will be pointless even offering the car for sale.
whilst I agree its an old avenger- if you think its worth 1500 then you are deluded. The bodywork has been completely replaced, modern brakes/ engine/ suspension, full respray etc etc. Its an old new car. I agree he will never get back anywhere near what he paid - he turned down 3k last weekend and I expect he will get more than that. Let's face it, it's an old modified Avenger, nothing special at all and I can't envisage why anyone would pay more than £1500 quid for it.
Tens of thousands of enthusiasts trawl Ebay every day and it's simply not possible for a gem to slip through the net for peanuts. If anything, multiple interest drives prices up.
Now it may be the seller thinks it's worth £5K - that's their perogative - but the fact is that if they are serious about selling it, the market dictates the price.
As with all negotiations, the seller should start by working out the minimum they will accept and what they would ideally like for the car.
The minimum is their reserve and anything above that is a bonus but bear in mind that if the minimum figure is unrealistic it will be pointless even offering the car for sale.
Edited by 9mm on Monday 12th November 15:12
james280779 said:
whilst I agree its an old avenger- if you think its worth 1500 then you are deluded. The bodywork has been completely replaced, modern brakes/ engine/ suspension, full respray etc etc. Its an old new car. I agree he will never get back anywhere near what he paid - he turned down 3k last weekend and I expect he will get more than that.
Thinking it worth £1500 (which is not quite what I said anway) does not make me deluded so please refrain from slinging insults about.It's worth what someone will pay on a given day. No more no less. What's more, prices go down as well as up.
Have a look at what people were paying for some classics in the late 80s and what they were getting for them two years later.
I think the seller should grab the £3K with both hands. The wise heads know the classic market is heading for a nasty correction. Maybe not as bad as the early 90s but no-one can be sure.
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