Brits at Groom Lake 1952?
Discussion
The registration number 18754 brings up this:
Aircraft: CESSNA 170A (Category: Land, Seats: 4, Weight: Up to 12,499 Pounds, Speed: 105 mph), Engine: CONT MOTOR C145 SERIES (145 HP) (Reciprocating)
N-Number: 3867V , Serial Number: 18754, Year manufactured: 1949, Airworthiness Date: 07/08/1955
Registrant (Individual): Armand Murat, 11219 Anderson Rd, Granger, IN 46530
Read more: http://www.city-data.com/aircraft/air-Granger-Indi...
It's one of these:
I've no idea, looking at the image in the OP, whether this could be the aircraft type, but the dates match.
Another possibility is the Piper J3C-65 (Cub)
http://registry.faa.gov/AircraftInquiry/NNum_resul...
A search for the serial number on the FAA site reveals both the Piper and the Cessna with that serial number. A third A/C, a Boeing 727-31, is recorded with that serial, but for obvious reasons, can be ruled out.
Somewhat more likely candidates are:
TAIL: 41-18700 ... 41-18771
Consolidated OA-10-CO Catalina
Numbers reserved for PBY-5As from USN, not taken up
Again, difficult to tell from the image in your post, but there are some basic similarities, and there where a number of different versions of the Cat' with slightly different tail designs. It's certainly a Catalina in the background.
As far as the flag goes, the image isn't clear enough to be certain, but it may be the pre-1965 Canadian flag.
Unfortunately, although there is a site listing Canadian military A/C serials, it's not as easy to search as the one for the US. It is worth noting, however, that some US supplied A/C in Canadian service retained their US serial numbers.
So. A US supplied Catalina, with one of these: "41-18700 ... 41-18771" reserved serial numbers, diverted to Canadian service, retaining it's US serial??
Hopefully some basis for further research there.
Aircraft: CESSNA 170A (Category: Land, Seats: 4, Weight: Up to 12,499 Pounds, Speed: 105 mph), Engine: CONT MOTOR C145 SERIES (145 HP) (Reciprocating)
N-Number: 3867V , Serial Number: 18754, Year manufactured: 1949, Airworthiness Date: 07/08/1955
Registrant (Individual): Armand Murat, 11219 Anderson Rd, Granger, IN 46530
Read more: http://www.city-data.com/aircraft/air-Granger-Indi...
It's one of these:
I've no idea, looking at the image in the OP, whether this could be the aircraft type, but the dates match.
Another possibility is the Piper J3C-65 (Cub)
http://registry.faa.gov/AircraftInquiry/NNum_resul...
A search for the serial number on the FAA site reveals both the Piper and the Cessna with that serial number. A third A/C, a Boeing 727-31, is recorded with that serial, but for obvious reasons, can be ruled out.
Somewhat more likely candidates are:
TAIL: 41-18700 ... 41-18771
Consolidated OA-10-CO Catalina
Numbers reserved for PBY-5As from USN, not taken up
Again, difficult to tell from the image in your post, but there are some basic similarities, and there where a number of different versions of the Cat' with slightly different tail designs. It's certainly a Catalina in the background.
As far as the flag goes, the image isn't clear enough to be certain, but it may be the pre-1965 Canadian flag.
Unfortunately, although there is a site listing Canadian military A/C serials, it's not as easy to search as the one for the US. It is worth noting, however, that some US supplied A/C in Canadian service retained their US serial numbers.
So. A US supplied Catalina, with one of these: "41-18700 ... 41-18771" reserved serial numbers, diverted to Canadian service, retaining it's US serial??
Hopefully some basis for further research there.
TvrTone said:
I'd found the CF-100 Canuck tail number but not an image for it. In mitigation, the "1952" in the OP's question/thread title, and the Cat' in the background threw me off the scent.
http://www.ody.ca/~bwalker/RCAF_18751_18792_detail...
Still, at least you can see my workings out, eh!
Canadian military serials are based on the type designationa allocated to the aircraft type by the Canadian military. The first two or three digits usually reflects this type designation.
However, this system largely cvame into use after the Royal Canadian Air Force was merged into the unified Canadian Armed Forces in 1968.
Prior to that, post was serials were allocated in "blocks" - with specific blocks being assiggned to various types. Here's an extract from a website which explains how this particular system worked -
The RCAF continued to use serial number blocks assigned by aircraft type after the war ended. Each aircraft type was its own block, with all aircraft of the type being issued consecutive serial numbers, even when procurement was spread over several years. For example, the CF-100 was assigned serials from 18101 to 18792, without gaps. These were built from 1950 to 1958, and other aircraft procured in those years were numbered in other blocks. Gaps were left between subsequent blocks, to allow for future procurement. As a result, the RCAF 5 digit numbers reached 26,190 by integration in February 1968, but there were less RCAF numbered aircraft in total than suggested by this high number. (My database currently contains 17,900+ RCAF serial numbers, not counting numbers re-used in the post war period, although it is not complete.)
However, this system largely cvame into use after the Royal Canadian Air Force was merged into the unified Canadian Armed Forces in 1968.
Prior to that, post was serials were allocated in "blocks" - with specific blocks being assiggned to various types. Here's an extract from a website which explains how this particular system worked -
The RCAF continued to use serial number blocks assigned by aircraft type after the war ended. Each aircraft type was its own block, with all aircraft of the type being issued consecutive serial numbers, even when procurement was spread over several years. For example, the CF-100 was assigned serials from 18101 to 18792, without gaps. These were built from 1950 to 1958, and other aircraft procured in those years were numbered in other blocks. Gaps were left between subsequent blocks, to allow for future procurement. As a result, the RCAF 5 digit numbers reached 26,190 by integration in February 1968, but there were less RCAF numbered aircraft in total than suggested by this high number. (My database currently contains 17,900+ RCAF serial numbers, not counting numbers re-used in the post war period, although it is not complete.)
yellowjack said:
Damn you!
I'd found the CF-100 Canuck tail number but not an image for it. In mitigation, the "1952" in the OP's question/thread title, and the Cat' in the background threw me off the scent.
http://www.ody.ca/~bwalker/RCAF_18751_18792_detail...
Still, at least you can see my workings out, eh!
Unfortunately, I am a bit of an anorak and I recognised it straight away!I'd found the CF-100 Canuck tail number but not an image for it. In mitigation, the "1952" in the OP's question/thread title, and the Cat' in the background threw me off the scent.
http://www.ody.ca/~bwalker/RCAF_18751_18792_detail...
Still, at least you can see my workings out, eh!
Lots of contries' flags featured Union Flags in the top left hand corner - some still do today (and one US state, for that matter).
Canada changed in 1968 under pressure from Quebec. At the same time, the "Royal" prefix was dropped from the Canadian Air Force and Navy.
Interestingly, teh "Royal" prefix was reintroduced last year. You never know, the old red flag my make a comeback.
Canada changed in 1968 under pressure from Quebec. At the same time, the "Royal" prefix was dropped from the Canadian Air Force and Navy.
Interestingly, teh "Royal" prefix was reintroduced last year. You never know, the old red flag my make a comeback.
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