9E30 - New package
Discussion
Following on from the thread Bob created (http://pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=48&t=1163771&mid=178471&nmt=996+Turbo+Akrapovic) thought post up what has been done to Caroline car.
The car had been at another outfit recently and as you may have read Bob had the Akrapovic exhaust fitted by a friend who noticed that the actuator was seized on the nearside turbo - so it was our good fortune that the previous outfit didn't notice. On further investigation the wastegate seals needed to be replaced but like many of these cars, the turbo just fell apart
- when trying to fix, so a good time for an upgrade.
We have been asked many times to have a middle of the road package for the 996 Turbo - we have obviously our 9E25 (700hp) and 9E20 (800hp) packages and 9E35 (525hp) etc. But there is quite a price difference between the lower and next package. We used to use k1616 hybrids with good results. However we wanted to continue on the theme and success of our k16 hybrids which runs a 39lb wheel.
We created previously a 32lb wheel but due to a number of circumstances never got the chance to test the car fully, as the customer changed his mind and went bigger before driving the car.
So this new package that Caroline has amongst other parts
- k1632 hybrids
- gt2rs intercoolers
- 5 fpr
- couple of other things of course.
We anticipated based on flow from the turbos that a 5 bar fpr would be sufficient for the fueling, knowing that the stock fuel system fitted with 5fpr is good for approx 560 w(heel)hp. Also, since this was to be a middle of the road package in terms of pricing, we wanted to avoid fitting injectors.
We set the boost to 1.2 bar as per the compressor map and starting datalogging. Could not believe that injectors were opened full at just over 5000 rpm. Further investigation showed that we were running out of fuel pressure before injectors e.g. as rpm rises the fuel pressure drops from 5 bar. This is down to the stock set up and the pressure regulator in the pump itself - it acts more as a blow off around 5 bar pressure, so on boost, with the right turbos, it blows a lot of fuel back into the tank. On a k24 there is not enough when on boost to cause this issue, so pressure remains constant. But clearly with these turbos the requested fuel needed was a lot more than a k24 with remap.
So it leaves 2 real choices - reduce the fuel pressure back to 3.8 bar, but increase injectors to 60lb from 48lb (preferred choice if remaining at the current boost level) or reducing boost to around 1 bar only. The latter would work fine, but in this instance Caroline wanted to retain the power. So we will fit the injectors and revert the fuel pressure to 3.8fpr.
Performance - well haven't run any numbers yet, but we will take the car to Brunters. However she has at least a solid 600hp. Boost starts at just 2000rpm with the lightweight compressor wheel. These actually hit quicker than our other packages, some of which as quite a few know spool to 1.5bar from no boost in 200rpm.
Once we get some real numbers on the performance will post the results. I am sure Caroline is looking forward to having her car back in a few weeks.
Ken
The car had been at another outfit recently and as you may have read Bob had the Akrapovic exhaust fitted by a friend who noticed that the actuator was seized on the nearside turbo - so it was our good fortune that the previous outfit didn't notice. On further investigation the wastegate seals needed to be replaced but like many of these cars, the turbo just fell apart
- when trying to fix, so a good time for an upgrade.We have been asked many times to have a middle of the road package for the 996 Turbo - we have obviously our 9E25 (700hp) and 9E20 (800hp) packages and 9E35 (525hp) etc. But there is quite a price difference between the lower and next package. We used to use k1616 hybrids with good results. However we wanted to continue on the theme and success of our k16 hybrids which runs a 39lb wheel.
We created previously a 32lb wheel but due to a number of circumstances never got the chance to test the car fully, as the customer changed his mind and went bigger before driving the car.
So this new package that Caroline has amongst other parts
- k1632 hybrids
- gt2rs intercoolers
- 5 fpr
- couple of other things of course.
We anticipated based on flow from the turbos that a 5 bar fpr would be sufficient for the fueling, knowing that the stock fuel system fitted with 5fpr is good for approx 560 w(heel)hp. Also, since this was to be a middle of the road package in terms of pricing, we wanted to avoid fitting injectors.
We set the boost to 1.2 bar as per the compressor map and starting datalogging. Could not believe that injectors were opened full at just over 5000 rpm. Further investigation showed that we were running out of fuel pressure before injectors e.g. as rpm rises the fuel pressure drops from 5 bar. This is down to the stock set up and the pressure regulator in the pump itself - it acts more as a blow off around 5 bar pressure, so on boost, with the right turbos, it blows a lot of fuel back into the tank. On a k24 there is not enough when on boost to cause this issue, so pressure remains constant. But clearly with these turbos the requested fuel needed was a lot more than a k24 with remap.
So it leaves 2 real choices - reduce the fuel pressure back to 3.8 bar, but increase injectors to 60lb from 48lb (preferred choice if remaining at the current boost level) or reducing boost to around 1 bar only. The latter would work fine, but in this instance Caroline wanted to retain the power. So we will fit the injectors and revert the fuel pressure to 3.8fpr.
Performance - well haven't run any numbers yet, but we will take the car to Brunters. However she has at least a solid 600hp. Boost starts at just 2000rpm with the lightweight compressor wheel. These actually hit quicker than our other packages, some of which as quite a few know spool to 1.5bar from no boost in 200rpm.
Once we get some real numbers on the performance will post the results. I am sure Caroline is looking forward to having her car back in a few weeks.
Ken
EvoSlayer said:
Glad to hear you're still pressing forward Ken, It'll be interesting to see the sprint times for this one compared to my old school set up.
Keep up the good work
We have got loads of things going on Andy but I don't have as much time available for forums as I used to have - we use facebook for most of our stuff that we release now. Keep up the good work
On these turbos the set up will be for a 30 second 0-300kph so the 60-130 time whilst important will not tell all. I would expect it to have a 7 in front of it.
Been busy on engine builds at the moment, got a 996 Turbo GT3/RSR car going out later this week with 900hp, got another 3.8 build with 800+ hp going out tomorrow morning. Been working on 997 Turbo tuning which is just a nightmare compared to the 996 Turbo, loads of NA stuff projects etc.
Never a dull moment.
Ken
p.s. you need one of my exhausts !
Interesting Ken, it makes absolutely sense adding an entry configuration to the bigger packages you have. The 9e30 must be blistering fast compared to anything the rest of the market can offer in that price category. Before you know it you will need to expand again
Nearly a year down the road from the first drive in my 9e25, thinking back, still puts a big wide grin on my face. Clearly significantly more money than the 9e30, the 9e25 is a very well priced package compared to other 700 HP solutions I looked at around EUR. You guys have really found yourself a nice market place with your K16 trickery, I can only see 9e continue growing rapidly the coming years.
I am wondering where the limit is for the K16's, a year ago when we discussed it, we sort of thought 700 is probably as much as you can ever get to (which in itself is amazing), but now you are breaking the laws of physics again pushing 800+, where do you really think the limit is and why is it only 9e who can drive that much power out of K16's?
Keep up the good work and keep on moving those goal posts
Nearly a year down the road from the first drive in my 9e25, thinking back, still puts a big wide grin on my face. Clearly significantly more money than the 9e30, the 9e25 is a very well priced package compared to other 700 HP solutions I looked at around EUR. You guys have really found yourself a nice market place with your K16 trickery, I can only see 9e continue growing rapidly the coming years.
I am wondering where the limit is for the K16's, a year ago when we discussed it, we sort of thought 700 is probably as much as you can ever get to (which in itself is amazing), but now you are breaking the laws of physics again pushing 800+, where do you really think the limit is and why is it only 9e who can drive that much power out of K16's?
Keep up the good work and keep on moving those goal posts
I am wondering where the limit is for the K16's, a year ago when we discussed it, we sort of thought 700 is probably as much as you can ever get to (which in itself is amazing), but now you are breaking the laws of physics again pushing 800+, where do you really think the limit is and why is it only 9e who can drive that much power out of K16's?
So Ken, did go off working on your golf game in Portugal again, or are you busy scheming up new tune configs?
Cheers,
HH
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