Classic auctions

[whiteonyx]

Was entering my pride and joy into an auction at the NEC for Nov and the auctioneers at the last minute changed the T & Cs by uping their commision rates from 5% to 10%(+vat) "but" i then would be able to enter the auction "and then i could bid up" on my own vehicle! Has anyone else heard of experienced this practice as it sounds like boardering on the illegal or at least very un-ethical.
"if" i won the auction, i would have to pay the 10% commision +VAT in additon to the entry fee to the auctioneers to take my own vehicle away!

[benjj]

That is absolutely fking terrible. I'd pull my car from something liek that and, if I'd parted with any, would demand back any cash I'd put into the deal so far.

[hedgefinder]

the company should be named and shamed, and pretty sure they arent acting 100% legally anyway.. they cant change their commision level at the last moment...
sound like a bunch of conmen to me. I certainly wouldnt deal with them.
If your original post is accurate then this matter should be widely publicised, would likely destroy their auctions overnight if the right people were in the know.

[john2443]

Obvious;y naming and shaming isn't allowed on here but it doesn't take much Googling to find who might have a classic auction at a show in November at the NEC

[V12 Migaloo]

Name and shame them.. this is an open free forum, what they have done is change the terms of your agreement and if you have already paid to have it entered, they are in breach

[Daisy Duke]

This practice is known as off-the-wall bidding and, whilst dubious, is legal, although only up to the reserve price, which the auctioneer should have made clear to the OP. Changing the T&Cs at such a late stage is out of order too.

It's a shame to hear that this particular auction house participates in such dodgy dealings as I was actually interested in bidding on a couple of their lots in this auction, but I doubt I shall now. My only previous experience of this firm was at Carfest, where I found them to be friendly. However, the catalogue description of the car I was interested in was at odds with how the car was in the 'metal' - unless cars full of filler and with no maintenance records for 20+ years are generally thought of as being in excellent condition.

[john2443]

I think off the wall bidding is when the auctioneer pretends there is a bid in order to get things moving rather than the seller bidding.

Either way, it's unlikely that you'll get a higher price by doing it, if a cars worth X then that's what it will (normally) go for, if someone tries to bid it above that then the genuine buyer will step back. If there's only 1 genuine buyer you might get them towards their limit but then it's a risky game as you might win.

[whiteonyx]

We were told that the vehicle would be listed with "no reserve" and we would be free to bid up.
For those wanting to google, the auction is on the 17th Nov at the NEC.

[V12 Migaloo]

I'm shocked that its this company, just goes to show that even a company with a semi decent reputation can use such under handed tactics

[Elderly]

whiteonyx said:

We were told that the vehicle would be listed with "no reserve" and we would be free to bid up.

That's VERY handy for the auction house; with no reserve, they won't have an item that doesn't sell.

If an item doesn't sell, there's no happy purchaser, no happy vendor, a poor post sale 'Bought in' figure for the auction house, and sometimes if the auction house has
advised the reserve, no selling commision for them either.

[LotusOmega375D]

V12 Migaloo said:

I'm shocked that its this company, just goes to show that even a company with a semi decent reputation can use such under handed tactics

They've only been on the scene for 10 minutes haven't they? I really don't think they've been around long enough to establish any sort of positive reputation.

[Daisy Duke]

john2443 said:

I think off the wall bidding is when the auctioneer pretends there is a bid in order to get things moving rather than the seller bidding.

It can be either the seller or the auctioneer acting on their behalf.

"almost all conditions of sale reserve the right for the seller to bid, or for the auctioneer to bid on his behalf. This is known as “bidding off the wall”, “bidding off the chandelier” or “puffing”. At its most basic level, it is fictitious bidding, however the law recognises that it is a necessary part of the auction process and thus regulates, rather than prohibits it. The auctioneer can bid up to the reserve but not at, or in excess of it, furthermore he should not make consecutive puffed bids."

Elderly said:

whiteonyx said:

We were told that the vehicle would be listed with "no reserve" and we would be free to bid up.

That's VERY handy for the auction house; with no reserve, they won't have an item that doesn't sell.

If an item doesn't sell, there's no happy purchaser, no happy vendor, a poor post sale 'Bought in' figure for the auction house, and sometimes if the auction house has
advised the reserve, no selling commision for them either.

Very true and hence their suggestion to the OP was illegal.

[v8250]

Auction houses need a thoroughly good beating sometimes. Over the past few years they've all started to strut around like pompous prize Peacocks. Remember, for all the fluffed-up market bullst they are only second hand car dealers/agents; no more. Ref' naming and shaming, it's simply taking the piss to double the buyers premium so soon prior to an auction so here's a link to their "revised" T&C's...aucking fuctioneers...

http://www.silverstoneauctions.com/terms-and-condi...

Edited by v8250 on Wednesday 24th October 15:31

[v8250]

LotusOmega375D said:

V12 Migaloo said:

I'm shocked that its this company, just goes to show that even a company with a semi decent reputation can use such under handed tactics

They've only been on the scene for 10 minutes haven't they? I really don't think they've been around long enough to establish any sort of positive reputation.

Yes, and I'm quite certain they were promoting their 5% premium in some of the classic mags earlier this year to separate themselves from the likes of Bonhams, Coys, RM, H&H et al.

[Daisy Duke]

v8250 said:

Auction houses need a thoroughly good beating sometimes. Over the past fews years they've all started to strut around like pompous prize Peacocks. Remember, for all the fluffed-up market bullst they are only second hand car dealers/agents; no more. Ref' naming and shaming, it's simply taking the piss to double the buyers premium so soon prior to an auction so here's a link to their "revised" T&C's...aucking fuctioneers...

http://www.silverstoneauctions.com/terms-and-condi...

I'm a bit confused now as that suggests that the cost to the vendor for a car are still a £250+VAT entry fee plus 5% of the hammer price if it sells (not 10% as the OP's post implied), and I thought the buyer's commission was always 10%+VAT of the hammer price?
BTW I see they allude to the practice of off-the-wall-bidding in point 9.2 .

Oh and nice spoonerism .

[Elderly]

hedgefinder said:

If your original post is accurate then this matter should be widely publicised, would likely destroy their auctions overnight if the right people were in the know.

I'm not naming and shaming as this has been in the public domain, but people forget bad reputations very quickly.

Coys of Kensington (Sales) Ltd collapsed in early 2004 with debts owed to over 30 creditors.
Many of the creditors had not been paid for their cars sold at auction in December 2003.

Does the present Coy's have NO connection at all with the previous company?

[Bobafett]

Not sure what they meant by this earlier and very public comment over the Carfest meet....

http://www.classicandsportscar.com/news/classic-ca...

[benjj]

That's is. Lifetime boycott of them and their services.

[Simon BB]

Interesting earlier post about this particular auction company and their description of cars condition vs reality at carfest. I'm sure they're not alone in 'bigging up' their lots but the motor i looked at described as 'immaculate and maintained regardless of cost' was in genuinely sh;te condition with a laughable estimate. It runied the cred of the whole event for me .......then the heaven's opened (carfest south) and it all became academic as it was a washout (further exposing some rather leaky 'immaculate' lots!)

Shocked to read the original post but sadly not suprised either.

S

[v8250]

Bobafett said:

Not sure what they meant by this earlier and very public comment over the Carfest meet....

http://www.classicandsportscar.com/news/classic-ca...

>>Silverstone Auctions
5 weeks ago

Russell,

Unbelievable! Thats 2 weeks running you have forgotten to mention the auction, run by Silverstone Auctions, which across the 2 Carfests raised over £90,000 for BBC Children in Need. Whats your problem -weren't you there? <<

One can summize that they weren't too happy in not having their name promoted as the auctioneering house "responsible" for raising the £90k. I put "responsible" in quotes as any auctioneering house associated with Chris Evan's Car Fests would raise similar amounts from simply being the auction hosts. One can't imagine the Car Fest visitors attending just because auction house XYZ is presenting the auction. The popularity and success of these events is because of the effort that Evan's and his team put into the festivals, the event profile, star cars and star drivers, and, the car owners/visitors enthusiasm in wanting to be there. Bugger-all to do with the individual auctioneers...any recognized UK auction house could/would do the same job.