E39 M5 - What are they like to live with?
Discussion
Currently driving a fairly modified RX7, and loving it, but there's a baby that was due yesterday and we've decided it's not the kind of car becoming of a sensible new father. I've grumbled and moaned a fair bit, but in the end the wife is probably right. So I've been looking at the E39 M5 as a replacement. She's happy with it cos of number of seats and boot space, I like the idea of not losing too much performance over the RX7, and price-wise I think it would be pretty much a straight swap.
What are they like to live with though? I'm not bothered in the slightest about fuel economy because I only do maybe 5000 miles a year, but are they horrendously expensive to keep on the road in other ways? Are they easy enough to fix on the drive or do they need regular, expensive, dealer visits? My previous BMW experience is limited to a 1993 318iS, and that was OK, but it's a very different car to the M5.
What are they like to live with though? I'm not bothered in the slightest about fuel economy because I only do maybe 5000 miles a year, but are they horrendously expensive to keep on the road in other ways? Are they easy enough to fix on the drive or do they need regular, expensive, dealer visits? My previous BMW experience is limited to a 1993 318iS, and that was OK, but it's a very different car to the M5.
There are very few issues with the e39 M5's.
Some of the well known problems are:
- VANOS failing
- Warped front discs
- Clutches are prone to wearing fast if mistreated
I had a new one for 3 years (2001 - 2004). Of all the cars I've had, it was my favourite. The hype, praise and reports you read are all correct; it's a fabulous car.
Get over to M5board.com for all the info you'll ever need.
Some of the well known problems are:
- VANOS failing
- Warped front discs
- Clutches are prone to wearing fast if mistreated
I had a new one for 3 years (2001 - 2004). Of all the cars I've had, it was my favourite. The hype, praise and reports you read are all correct; it's a fabulous car.
Get over to M5board.com for all the info you'll ever need.
we have one as a third car and only do 4000 a year in it....its a 2000 x facelift....just had a new set of tyres 750, bit of suspension work and a 4 wheel alignment, probably spent all in all 1400 quid trade...Vanos is slightly noisy and i suspect will need both sorting in next 12 months which will be 1300 or so.
Plus points are Ferrari beating performance in a four door car with a big boot, decent on fuel on long runs, reliable....best thing we have done is the alignment, transformed the car and saved the tyres scrubbing...sports exhaust would be in my to do list.
Any cars with the sat nav/tv option, see if its been upgraded, as if its still anologue, it wont work.
Plus points are Ferrari beating performance in a four door car with a big boot, decent on fuel on long runs, reliable....best thing we have done is the alignment, transformed the car and saved the tyres scrubbing...sports exhaust would be in my to do list.
Any cars with the sat nav/tv option, see if its been upgraded, as if its still anologue, it wont work.
Bought mine in May 2005 with 72k miles on it from the original owner. Brilliant daily driver also done the occasional Hoon in Europe. Currently on 113k miles and running sweet. Like any of these bargain big engined barges/sports cars, once you've paid the purchase price provided you have enough left over for a disaster fund, jump right in. Approx seven years of running costs on my profile.
Maybe this will help? http://pistonheads.com/members/showcar.asp?carId=1...
The Flying Ox said:
What are they like to live with though? I'm not bothered in the slightest about fuel economy because I only do maybe 5000 miles a year, but are they horrendously expensive to keep on the road in other ways? Are they easy enough to fix on the drive or do they need regular, expensive, dealer visits? My previous BMW experience is limited to a 1993 318iS, and that was OK, but it's a very different car to the M5.
I haven't had mine long, so take with a pinch of salt.Servicing costs aren't too bad. 3-400 for the big inspection 2 from an indy. Even BMW will go down to 5-600 if you push them or ring around if you really want the stamp.
I'm not seeing them as being too expensive to keep running (famous last words). Parts seem priced in line with any other car of that performance so if you're used to those costs then it won't come as a shock.
Weak points would be :
- VANOS (as mentioned). I'm not aware of this causing outright engine failure but can get noisy, reduce performance or cause the car to not run correctly. I believe facelift models should help some in this regard. Most VANOS fixes are, apparently, DIY'able if you're so inclined.
- Myriad of sensors that the ECU relies on. MAFs (plural), CPS', o2 sensors etc. Again none will cause outright havoc but will degrade performance / cause lumpy running over time. Replacing en masse could be expensive but they're all DIY'able again.
- Fan clutch / engine fan. Can seize and cause problems if it lets go. Cheap and easy DIY fix.
- Rod bearings. Not sure what to make of this one, causes concern over on m5board.
- BMWs insistence that the gearbox and diff are 'sealed for life' (though I guess that's accurate depending on how you define the life of the unit..!) units. Change the oil first thing.
- Engine belts and guides. Seem to be becoming issues so should be keenly replaced.
- Rust.
- Rust.
- Rust.
Biggest problem is probably just age. Unless you go into the upper end of the market for low mileage models you'll find they've all probably been well used and have miles on them. Which means you're just into general consumables territory. Suspension bits, fuel pump etc etc. So no real single problem just potentially lots of little age or mileage related wear and tear. Can't blame the car for that.
They seem eminently spannerable on the driveway. I'm having a go at doing so and I can just about identify a spanner even if someone leaves a sign next to one saying ' <- spanner '. So if you're already handy I doubt you'll have much trouble.
Plenty of people on m5board (you may be getting the impression you should go have a look there!) with photos and videos of driveway based fun including bigger jobs.
The more I drive mine, the more I love it. The performance isn't any better than other fast car's I've owned but the biggest difference with the e39 is I've not found any compromises yet. It will be any car you want it to be.
Make sure you buy a good one and I'm sure it will be fine.
dazren said:
Bought mine in May 2005 with 72k miles on it from the original owner. Brilliant daily driver also done the occasional Hoon in Europe. Currently on 113k miles and running sweet. Like any of these bargain big engined barges/sports cars, once you've paid the purchase price provided you have enough left over for a disaster fund, jump right in. Approx seven years of running costs on my profile.
£1.06 per mile seems fairly pricey to me, particularly for 38,000 miles!I really liked mine, not too bad to run (although consumables like tyres and brakes are expensive) and the all-round performance and build quality are superb. VANOS issues are less common than the E36 M3, but worth getting the car on a diagnostic pre-purchase. If you use a specialist for servicing it's pretty reasonable. As mentioned above, excellent forum at M5board too. Loads of toys and practical size too, mine had split-fold rear seats so you could fit all manner of things in it.
However, I must admit, and I'll probably get flamed for this, that I don't see the point of them as a family car. I was in a similar position to you, running an E36 M3 Evo, and thought the M5 would be spot on with a new baby, but I just found it frustrating.
The problem for me was that you end up with your family car as your high-performance "toy" as well, and, awesome as the M5 is, you can't (and don't with a baby on board) use all the performance on the road. You can't take them on track really either (although people do) due to weight/cost of consumables.
I'd never worried about fuel economy before, and only do 6000 miles/year, but the M5 got to me, mostly because I wasn't using the performance and was still getting punished at the pumps. Even just tootling around it would struggle to average over 20mpg, and given the size of the tank (and super-unleaded) you end up paying £100+ for a tank with a range of 250 miles.
For the above reasons, I really struggled to justify the difference in purchase price/running costs between the M5 and a lesser 5-series, so ended up replacing the M5, after a fun year, with a 530i, and then keeping a hot hatch (and eventually buying a half share in a Caterham) to get the driving/performance/trackday "fix".
You may be in a different position to me in terms of being able to store more than one car, but thought that might be helpful. Oh, and congratulations, exciting times
ETA - I sold mine at 121k miles and it was running sweet as a nut - buy on condition not mileage.
However, I must admit, and I'll probably get flamed for this, that I don't see the point of them as a family car. I was in a similar position to you, running an E36 M3 Evo, and thought the M5 would be spot on with a new baby, but I just found it frustrating.
The problem for me was that you end up with your family car as your high-performance "toy" as well, and, awesome as the M5 is, you can't (and don't with a baby on board) use all the performance on the road. You can't take them on track really either (although people do) due to weight/cost of consumables.
I'd never worried about fuel economy before, and only do 6000 miles/year, but the M5 got to me, mostly because I wasn't using the performance and was still getting punished at the pumps. Even just tootling around it would struggle to average over 20mpg, and given the size of the tank (and super-unleaded) you end up paying £100+ for a tank with a range of 250 miles.
For the above reasons, I really struggled to justify the difference in purchase price/running costs between the M5 and a lesser 5-series, so ended up replacing the M5, after a fun year, with a 530i, and then keeping a hot hatch (and eventually buying a half share in a Caterham) to get the driving/performance/trackday "fix".
You may be in a different position to me in terms of being able to store more than one car, but thought that might be helpful. Oh, and congratulations, exciting times
ETA - I sold mine at 121k miles and it was running sweet as a nut - buy on condition not mileage.
Chapppers said:
dazren said:
Bought mine in May 2005 with 72k miles on it from the original owner. Brilliant daily driver also done the occasional Hoon in Europe. Currently on 113k miles and running sweet. Like any of these bargain big engined barges/sports cars, once you've paid the purchase price provided you have enough left over for a disaster fund, jump right in. Approx seven years of running costs on my profile.
£1.06 per mile seems fairly pricey to me, particularly for 38,000 miles!Edited by Krikkit on Monday 29th October 10:37
Chapppers as said depreciation is £11k of the figure. Doing only 5/6k miles per year does make fixed costs such as road tax/insurance skew the per mile figure. There is also an upgrade costs on the brakes which most people will not do. Servicing prices listed are mainly from my local inde. More recently I've stuck michelin tyres on the car, there are cheaper makes available.
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