start button unresponsive for 15 seconds on 2nd start only
Discussion
sorry to possibly confuse in the title, right my complaint is, for example, wake and go to the car , starts 1st time no problem, then drive round corner fill up with petrol , try to start , no responce , hold the button gas down as well absolutely nothing and then after 10-15 seconds springs to life , this seems to only happen when i start it drive small distance and stop and start again although it has happened after a half hour stop , originaly i assumed charge issues and weak battery or too much drain from the stereo but these have all been checked , plus i am familiar with the starting of a weak battery and it slightly heaves before turning, so now a lazy solenoid has been mentioned not something i v ever heard of , this is just dead for 10-15seconds then starts like u had just pressed it , has anyone had a similar problem ???
for some unknown reason my car has been rewired cutting out the isolator switch by the ash tray and also to start it , you have to use the isolator stick every time ( i have heard thats not correct and your supposed to be able to unlock the doors and get in and start it up , but the only other cerb i saw had the same process as mine), would these issues be anyway linked to the problem if it were the relays ???
In reference to a previous thread about the doors, i had all my door connectors greased up and they work very well in conjunction with extending the magnet sensor, so you were right about that, thanks.
In reference to a previous thread about the doors, i had all my door connectors greased up and they work very well in conjunction with extending the magnet sensor, so you were right about that, thanks.
fubar sounds said:
for some unknown reason my car has been rewired cutting out the isolator switch by the ash tray and also to start it , you have to use the isolator stick every time ( i have heard thats not correct and your supposed to be able to unlock the doors and get in and start it up , but the only other cerb i saw had the same process as mine), would these issues be anyway linked to the problem if it were the relays ???
I'd say yes.By the sounds of it, when you turn the car alarm off, the doors open, you get in the car, but the immobiliser light is still flashing, to indicate it's still armed... The immobiliser that is.
You introduce your immobiliser key to the flashing light, the light goes off & you press your starter button to fire the car up.
That set of events, would lead me to think you are still going through the 'immobiliser relay' part of the alarm system.
You're right by the way, that's not how it worked out of the factory.
This was a well know issue and it pops up on here every month or so.
Isn't is all down to the immobiliser getting old? I could be talking rubbish but I thought that is was something to do with a voltage drop signal that's why if you keep the black button down and press other buttons the car will fire up straight away.
I used to have this issue all the time but with mine you kept the black button down, turn the blower on max and then pressing the driver window down will fire the engine into life.
Is Carl Barker still around or has he left us now? I am sure he used to fix these issues for Cerb owners.
Isn't is all down to the immobiliser getting old? I could be talking rubbish but I thought that is was something to do with a voltage drop signal that's why if you keep the black button down and press other buttons the car will fire up straight away.
I used to have this issue all the time but with mine you kept the black button down, turn the blower on max and then pressing the driver window down will fire the engine into life.
Is Carl Barker still around or has he left us now? I am sure he used to fix these issues for Cerb owners.
Fitted a new system to mine, I gather he's about to emigrate, but there's a thread running on the TVR bit, about the new Gurus on the block.
If anyone's still got one of the original immobiliser's fitted, I'd be very surprised if the original self contained siren/battery is still working along side it
If anyone's still got one of the original immobiliser's fitted, I'd be very surprised if the original self contained siren/battery is still working along side it
ok , on speaking to bespoke , they said could be;
when the starter motor gets warm it may require more voltage to start hence an increased time of pressing the black button.
or
there is a box on the rear shelf that controls the starter motor and that may need some work .
on asking about relays in the immobiliser , he said there were not any ???
on advice from bespoke david fairclough fitted a new siren ( as the old one when reconnected harassed my street for an afternoon ), he put in an extra cut off switch/key, which i think i switched off as it may have been making a slight wine as i attempted to start the second time , if that has any bearing on the situation.
he told me about the immobiliser wiring but said work on the immobiliser was garage work , cant remember his reason for that .
apparently it may not get worse , in which case its not that bad to live with but i would like to get the immobiliser running correctly because it looks like i m hot wiring my own car every time i start it
when the starter motor gets warm it may require more voltage to start hence an increased time of pressing the black button.
or
there is a box on the rear shelf that controls the starter motor and that may need some work .
on asking about relays in the immobiliser , he said there were not any ???
on advice from bespoke david fairclough fitted a new siren ( as the old one when reconnected harassed my street for an afternoon ), he put in an extra cut off switch/key, which i think i switched off as it may have been making a slight wine as i attempted to start the second time , if that has any bearing on the situation.
he told me about the immobiliser wiring but said work on the immobiliser was garage work , cant remember his reason for that .
apparently it may not get worse , in which case its not that bad to live with but i would like to get the immobiliser running correctly because it looks like i m hot wiring my own car every time i start it
RUSSELLM said:
I'd say yes.
By the sounds of it, when you turn the car alarm off, the doors open, you get in the car, but the immobiliser light is still flashing, to indicate it's still armed... The immobiliser that is.
You introduce your immobiliser key to the flashing light, the light goes off & you press your starter button to fire the car up.
That set of events, would lead me to think you are still going through the 'immobiliser relay' part of the alarm system.
You're right by the way, that's not how it worked out of the factory.
If the immobiliser has been replaced at some point without replacing the alarm system then you will be required to use the immobiliser key each time you start the car.By the sounds of it, when you turn the car alarm off, the doors open, you get in the car, but the immobiliser light is still flashing, to indicate it's still armed... The immobiliser that is.
You introduce your immobiliser key to the flashing light, the light goes off & you press your starter button to fire the car up.
That set of events, would lead me to think you are still going through the 'immobiliser relay' part of the alarm system.
You're right by the way, that's not how it worked out of the factory.
I believe its because the alarm system memory can only be programmed to one immobiliser for the purposes of using the remote as a way of opening/de-immobilising/starting the car.
This is what we learnt when replacing the immobiliser in the Tuscan without renewing the alarm system.
Possibly yours has been replaced at some time in the past.
As for your initial post, I`m with Tanguero on this.
Have been through the same with the Cerbs and it appears to be down the starter circuit within the immobiliser.
fubar sounds said:
when the starter motor gets warm it may require more voltage to start hence an increased time of pressing the black button.
I'd get a second opinion.With my limited electrical knowledge, I can tell you for a fact, that if you get a 12V battery, wire it through a button & on to something else, you could sit here from now until 2045 & that voltage wont be going up
However, I could imagine how something stopping the voltage like a relay or capacitor in the immobiliser might need some kind of build up before it sparks in to life. Bit like the flashing strobes in the bell boxes we sell
dempsey said:
I had this problem; read all the threads, starter motor replaced, new relay, bypassed the immobiliser (temporarily!)but it turned out to be the black ignition/starter switch itself.
Bit obvious really - not sure why this never gets mentioned as a
culprit.
One of a few things it could be I suppose. Bit obvious really - not sure why this never gets mentioned as a
culprit.
And easy enough for the OP to test. Just go round with the bare wires exposed for a couple of weeks, touching them together to mimic the button... And see if it solves the problem.
right , interesting , may attempt what you sugest russell if i am feeling brave , will probably break something , as for the immobiliser issues , who s department is that , the alarm guy or the garage , and if what some one suggested about the new alarm system not matching (although i am pretty sure the alarm guy said the alarm was original ) is correct does that mean i will never get the set up back to the factory protocol ?
After having a long list of problems and having crushed them all , this seems to be the final one , once this is sorted i am expecting a clear run ( excuse the pun ) until a big service next year.
After having a long list of problems and having crushed them all , this seems to be the final one , once this is sorted i am expecting a clear run ( excuse the pun ) until a big service next year.
fubar sounds said:
on asking about relays in the immobiliser , he said there were not any ???
Hahahaha! What rubbish! There are 2 relays potted into the immobiliser according to Meta's own documentation. You can even hear them click with a stethoscope. I suggest that you talk to someone who knows what they are talking about!
ETA
It could be the starter motor. It could be the ignition control box. However it is far far more likely to be the immobiliser (or possibly the button its self). Rest assured it will get worse unless it is sorted.
Edited by Tanguero on Friday 2nd November 16:50
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=...
There you go mate, Carl's mentioned at the top.
No reason they can't get it back to factory spec. Basically, you disarm it, open the doors, then you've something like 20 seconds to turn the ignition on. If you don't turn the ignition button on within the required time, the immobiliser turns itself back on. At that point, you can introduce the tag to the immobiliser reader, like you're having to do.
The new fob has a second button for operating another device. Carl gets it to fire the boot release.
There you go mate, Carl's mentioned at the top.
No reason they can't get it back to factory spec. Basically, you disarm it, open the doors, then you've something like 20 seconds to turn the ignition on. If you don't turn the ignition button on within the required time, the immobiliser turns itself back on. At that point, you can introduce the tag to the immobiliser reader, like you're having to do.
The new fob has a second button for operating another device. Carl gets it to fire the boot release.
fubar sounds said:
and if what some one suggested about the new alarm system not matching (although i am pretty sure the alarm guy said the alarm was original ) is correct does that mean i will never get the set up back to the factory protocol ?
If the car came out the factory with the alarm and immobiliser programmed to each other but they aren`t now, its more likely its the immobiliser, not the alarm, that has been replaced, assuming they haven`t been physically separated somewhere within the car.A new alarm can be programmed to accept the existing immobiliser but not the other way round.
To get back to factory protocol I believe you would have to purchase, at least, a replacement alarm.
But if, as may be the case, the immobiliser is on its way out, you can buy a complete replacement system, where the alarm and immobiliser come already programmed to each other and would then return you to factory issue.
For the record, all the above pertain to the meta system.
Cannot speak for after market stuff.
Ref: http://abacuscaralarms.co.uk/alarmshop/index.php?a...
Edited by TVdinneR on Friday 2nd November 19:04
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