My first GPS...Advice needed please
Discussion
I mentioned on another thread that I'd bought a wee trailer sailer.
It has no nab equipment and to begin with, this will be fine as it's in Loch Lomond and if I go further afield, I can live with charts and doing things the old fashioned way.
With that said, it might be nice to upgrade to a GPS chartplotter and possibly something with a depth gauge/fish finder but I'm really not familiar with the market at all.
Where should i start looking?
I saw the other thread about GPS/SONAR but probably more than I need, bearing in mind the boat doesn't have a generator. Am I really looking at handheld things that will be charged at home beforehand or is there a solution??
Basically, I have more questions than answers so any pointers or a rundown on what's out there would be a massive help!
Thanks
It has no nab equipment and to begin with, this will be fine as it's in Loch Lomond and if I go further afield, I can live with charts and doing things the old fashioned way.
With that said, it might be nice to upgrade to a GPS chartplotter and possibly something with a depth gauge/fish finder but I'm really not familiar with the market at all.
Where should i start looking?
I saw the other thread about GPS/SONAR but probably more than I need, bearing in mind the boat doesn't have a generator. Am I really looking at handheld things that will be charged at home beforehand or is there a solution??
Basically, I have more questions than answers so any pointers or a rundown on what's out there would be a massive help!
Thanks
Be VERY careful about something you charge before hand. It WILL run out of juice at the most inopportune moment and no matter how good a nav you are, you will start to rely on it.
For location finding even the cheapest of Garmins will give you a grid to work off. Get one that runs of AA batteries and keep plenty on the boat - disposables and NOT rechargeable as they self discharge over time. Garmin also do bluechart which IIRC will work on all their mapping GPS.
For location finding even the cheapest of Garmins will give you a grid to work off. Get one that runs of AA batteries and keep plenty on the boat - disposables and NOT rechargeable as they self discharge over time. Garmin also do bluechart which IIRC will work on all their mapping GPS.
Does your boat not have space for a leisure battery (essentially the same size/power as a car battery, but designed to 'trickle' its power out, rather than provide a big 'bump' to start an engine)? When I had a little Carina 20, I had a depth sounder (NASA clipper) that ran off a leisure battery, and I used a solar charger to top that up.
If you have a smart phone, take a look at the apps available. I have isailor on my iphone, and it works like a chartplotter. The app is free, and you pay for the charts. SE coast cost me £11.99.
If you have a smart phone, take a look at the apps available. I have isailor on my iphone, and it works like a chartplotter. The app is free, and you pay for the charts. SE coast cost me £11.99.
TTwiggy said:
Does your boat not have space for a leisure battery (essentially the same size/power as a car battery, but designed to 'trickle' its power out, rather than provide a big 'bump' to start an engine)? When I had a little Carina 20, I had a depth sounder (NASA clipper) that ran off a leisure battery, and I used a solar charger to top that up.
If you have a smart phone, take a look at the apps available. I have isailor on my iphone, and it works like a chartplotter. The app is free, and you pay for the charts. SE coast cost me £11.99.
It probably does, I just had no idea they existed! Do they give me a cigarette-lighter style socket??If you have a smart phone, take a look at the apps available. I have isailor on my iphone, and it works like a chartplotter. The app is free, and you pay for the charts. SE coast cost me £11.99.
Disastrous said:
It probably does, I just had no idea they existed! Do they give me a cigarette-lighter style socket??
haha - sadly not! What you will get is a standard battery that looks just like a car battery, with two terminals. The usual practice is to feed this supply to a marine fuse box which has outputs for stuff like GPS/depth/wind/VHF etc. I'd be surprised if your boat didn't have something like this already, but it's a pretty simple job to install. The battery can either live 'outside' in a stern locker, or in the cabin.
TTwiggy said:
Disastrous said:
It probably does, I just had no idea they existed! Do they give me a cigarette-lighter style socket??
haha - sadly not! What you will get is a standard battery that looks just like a car battery, with two terminals. The usual practice is to feed this supply to a marine fuse box which has outputs for stuff like GPS/depth/wind/VHF etc. I'd be surprised if your boat didn't have something like this already, but it's a pretty simple job to install. The battery can either live 'outside' in a stern locker, or in the cabin.
What's the damage likely to be for something like that? I guess the decision to make is whether to go for something handheld (and cheaper) or something like this...
The battery will set you back around £100.
Fuse boxes here: http://www.force4.co.uk/b/284/Blue-Sea.html
The bonus of this is that it gives you 'power' on the boat when needed, but as said above, you could just rely on handheld systems. Bear in mind what I said about smart phones - lots of good nav apps available, and they can all tell you a GPS position.
Fuse boxes here: http://www.force4.co.uk/b/284/Blue-Sea.html
The bonus of this is that it gives you 'power' on the boat when needed, but as said above, you could just rely on handheld systems. Bear in mind what I said about smart phones - lots of good nav apps available, and they can all tell you a GPS position.
TTwiggy said:
The battery will set you back around £100.
Fuse boxes here: http://www.force4.co.uk/b/284/Blue-Sea.html
The bonus of this is that it gives you 'power' on the boat when needed, but as said above, you could just rely on handheld systems. Bear in mind what I said about smart phones - lots of good nav apps available, and they can all tell you a GPS position.
Brilliant stuff!Fuse boxes here: http://www.force4.co.uk/b/284/Blue-Sea.html
The bonus of this is that it gives you 'power' on the boat when needed, but as said above, you could just rely on handheld systems. Bear in mind what I said about smart phones - lots of good nav apps available, and they can all tell you a GPS position.
Will look into iOS stuff. I have an iPad so that might be perfect in a waterproof case...
Disastrous said:
Brilliant stuff!
Will look into iOS stuff. I have an iPad so that might be perfect in a waterproof case...
the ipad would be great, so long as it's a 3G model, as (AFAIK) the wi-fi only one does not have gps capacity...Will look into iOS stuff. I have an iPad so that might be perfect in a waterproof case...
Look at isailor (really good, gives course heading and speed too - I was using it on the Thames clipper the other night) and also the navionics stuff. You can get AIS too, so you can see what other ships are in the area.
If you hunt around you can buy battery boxes which incorporate 1 or 2 cigar lighter-type 12v sockets. Pop a cheap leisure battery in one of those and Bob may be your uncle if all you are wanting is a cheap source of power with little or no wiring to do. You could either charge it at home or install a small solar panel on the boat.
Before you get too excited about an Ipad or Iphone solution you need to understand that they do not use GPS the way a dedicated nav set does.
It uses what is called Assisted GPS and is reliant on cell towers and network info to know where the satellites are in the first place. Go offshore out of range of cells and the thing will take an age to find info if at all.
Any GPS needs to see 4 satellites to get a decent fix with elevation and your iphone/pad needs to be left in a position to download the time stamp and data of where all 24 of them will be from a satellite at something like 50 bits per second before it even has anything to start working with. Think along the lines of a quarter of an hour.
The cheat with phones is it takes that info from cells or network hence why it is quick when in range.
Also the AIS stuff etc is next to useless as it is generally dated by half an hour or more and again unless there is network then it can't get the info to display.
So no harm as a little toy to have aboard but please don't think of it as a serious navigational tool.
For the same reasons they are not a replacement for VHF as a safety aid.
It uses what is called Assisted GPS and is reliant on cell towers and network info to know where the satellites are in the first place. Go offshore out of range of cells and the thing will take an age to find info if at all.
Any GPS needs to see 4 satellites to get a decent fix with elevation and your iphone/pad needs to be left in a position to download the time stamp and data of where all 24 of them will be from a satellite at something like 50 bits per second before it even has anything to start working with. Think along the lines of a quarter of an hour.
The cheat with phones is it takes that info from cells or network hence why it is quick when in range.
Also the AIS stuff etc is next to useless as it is generally dated by half an hour or more and again unless there is network then it can't get the info to display.
So no harm as a little toy to have aboard but please don't think of it as a serious navigational tool.
For the same reasons they are not a replacement for VHF as a safety aid.
Fair point, and I wouldn't be inclined to rely on one, I don't think (from a battery perspective as much as anything else - having the GPS on east them!).
I'm having a quick browse on the Garmin site and it seems like the handheld stuff is not really aimed at chart plotting - more like a map that shows your position.
Do I really need to be looking at wired in options for that? Say this, for example:
https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=148&pI...
I'm having a quick browse on the Garmin site and it seems like the handheld stuff is not really aimed at chart plotting - more like a map that shows your position.
Do I really need to be looking at wired in options for that? Say this, for example:
https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=148&pI...
That little Garmin looks good although I am a bit of a fan having had all my gear changed over to it.
You need to think about what you want to achieve now and in the future.
Assuming you are already looking to change the boat having owned it for over a week now then get something that will move to your next vessel.
Garmin has the benefit of built in UK maps as long as you get the UK version whereas other makes tend to want you to buy maps as an add on and a full UK set could cost you as much as a Garmin set to start with.
And if you want to add sonar capability now or later just get the S version and you wil be good to go.
Be mindful though that a built in antenna will only be as accurate as you allow it to be. If it can't see satellites it can't do the job so think about where you will put it on the boat and maybe consider an external antenna up the mast or on a pole.
As Fishtigua says a small 50ah marine battery and aux output on your future outboard purchase will do the job.
You need to think about what you want to achieve now and in the future.
Assuming you are already looking to change the boat having owned it for over a week now then get something that will move to your next vessel.
Garmin has the benefit of built in UK maps as long as you get the UK version whereas other makes tend to want you to buy maps as an add on and a full UK set could cost you as much as a Garmin set to start with.
And if you want to add sonar capability now or later just get the S version and you wil be good to go.
Be mindful though that a built in antenna will only be as accurate as you allow it to be. If it can't see satellites it can't do the job so think about where you will put it on the boat and maybe consider an external antenna up the mast or on a pole.
As Fishtigua says a small 50ah marine battery and aux output on your future outboard purchase will do the job.
Cool, thanks guys.
I've got an outboard already so that sounds ideal. And despit drooling at AC72s all day, I've got no immediate upgrade plans. It's my first boat and I'm not a very experienced sailor so plan is to get a good bit of time in the water, finish off my day skip practical and then see where we're at so certainly nothing doing for a year or two.
Good points about one I can take with me though.
How weatherproof are they? It seems like the sort if thing you'd want to be able to see from the helm but I don't know-I've never used one; it's been paper charts or me thus far...
I've got an outboard already so that sounds ideal. And despit drooling at AC72s all day, I've got no immediate upgrade plans. It's my first boat and I'm not a very experienced sailor so plan is to get a good bit of time in the water, finish off my day skip practical and then see where we're at so certainly nothing doing for a year or two.
Good points about one I can take with me though.
How weatherproof are they? It seems like the sort if thing you'd want to be able to see from the helm but I don't know-I've never used one; it's been paper charts or me thus far...
silver_lining said:
Be careful what you buy if you're planning on using the plotter on Loch Lomond. The charts are only available on CMAP type cartridges which fit in a limited number of plotters.
I don't think I'd bother for the Loch to be honest...I'm thinking more if I trailer it somewhere unknown or something. Is it my imagination or do I remember someone saying that the Lomond charts are dreadfully inaccurate anyway??Back in 1981 Midshipman Simpo was on a hired cabin cruiser for a week on Loch Lomond and navigated it just fine with nothing more than a tourist map. It's 600 feet deep and the islands are quite visible so you won't hit them. A couple have rocky shoals but they were shown on the map - we even rescued a speedboat that got stuck on one. Mind you the swell can be significant - when the wind got up once I felt that keeping at right angles to it was probably a good idea to avoid capsize (I haven't calculated the angle required to topple a TLR camera but we reached it).
It was a great holiday but sadly you can't hire decent cruisers any more, only day boats.
It was a great holiday but sadly you can't hire decent cruisers any more, only day boats.
You say that and yet just last year, the boat I was crewing on (so not my fault) spent a good deal of time waiting for a rescue boat, perched on top of an uncharted rock (about 50 yards from the warning buoy!)...given the skipper has been sailing the loch for approx 15 years and has since been up and down the area for three hours trying to find it again without success, my money's on enemy action! 
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